04-03-2003 05:38									#31
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quote: Japan isn't exactly supposed to send troops outside of its own borders, under the post-WW2 constitution. China and SK (IIRC) have been complaining about Japan's involvement in peacekeeping missions. Betcha this ad has something to do with that.

Why would Chinese and South Korean complaints make Japan run ads in the US? The United States doesn't have the irrational fear of Japanese peacekeepers that China and South Korea does...

	04-03-2003 06:37									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Conservatives watch news and like the thoughtful discussion to be found on talk radio, that's why they do well, because we participate. Best I can figure is liberals aren't interested in news or discussion, so their stations fail. The liberals jump through all sorts of hoops to avoid admitting this basic fact to themselves. The basic fact they can't miss however, is the numbers for CNN and FOX.

Oh barf. Conservative talk radio is about as in-depth as Asher's ass. Unless you consider spreading rumors that Hillary is a lesbian is in-depth.

If you want in-depth news, try the NYTimes (liberal), BBC (liberal), or NPR (liberal). Liberal news sources are usually far more dedicated to depth than conservative ones. Let me run issues of the NYTimes and Washington Times by you and show you the glaring difference in both national and international coverage.

	04-03-2003 06:39									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Frogger: FOX now does better then CNN in the rating.

BAM. Ming, of all people, debunked this. CNN consistently beats FOX in overall ratings, by a large margin. Only certain FOX programs beat out CNN, like that talentless O'Reilly bastard.

	04-03-2003 07:03									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov BAM. Ming, of all people, debunked this. CNN consistently beats FOX in overall ratings, by a large margin. Only certain FOX programs beat out CNN, like that talentless O'Reilly bastard.

No you are as wrong as Imran was when he said the same thing, but I doubt you'll be as stubborn in your "defense in the face of incontrevertable evidence" as he usually is. Fox is now #1, even though it isn't as available as CNN. Look up "Fox, CNN, ratings" on Google for confirmation. Ming noted the change in a thread last week somtime.

	04-03-2003 07:16									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander No you are as wrong as Imran was when he said the same thing, but I doubt you'll be as stubborn in your "defense in the face of incontrevertable evidence" as he usually is. Fox is now #1, even though it isn't as available as CNN. Look up "Fox, CNN, ratings" on Google for confirmation. Ming noted the change in a thread last week somtime.

FOX beat out CNN in January, but that is neccessarily indicative of a permanent switch in the ratings berth. After all, FOX won 2 months out of 12 last year, but CNN still held the ratings top spot overall by a comfortable margin.

	04-03-2003 07:18									#36
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Yeah. FOX won the 4 months after 9/11...and then lost the next 10 months.

	04-03-2003 07:18									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov FOX beat out CNN in January, but that is neccessarily indicative of a permanent switch in the ratings berth. After all, FOX won 2 months out of 12 last year, but CNN still held the ratings top spot overall by a comfortable margin.

Alright, we'll wait to the end of the year and see. Things could really change if / when the war starts, as CNN got a pretty good rep from the last one.

	04-03-2003 07:24									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Liberal whining aside, FOXnews is a respected journalism source.

Respected by whom?

	04-03-2003 07:24									#39
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SAlthough I must admit that I wasn't aware that Fox had won another month recently...

	04-03-2003 07:27									#40
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quote: Why would Chinese and South Korean complaints make Japan run ads in the US? The United States doesn't have the irrational fear of Japanese peacekeepers that China and South Korea does...

Drake, it's not exactly irrational.

when another nation forcibly annexes yours and occupies it in one of the most brutal regimes ever imagined because of its militarization, it's kinda hard not to be somewhat afraid of it.

france was extremely wary of germany until its division and subsequent funky buttlovin' taught it differently.

===

also: if you go by text, as in, people who go to the websites to read the articles, cnn.com is on netcraft.com's top 50 list, whereas foxnews.com doesn't even show up.

i realize this probably also includes foreign readers, but i still believe that this is a rather significant marker: fox news' televised success might well hinge on its excellence at coming up with quotables and sound bites.

	04-03-2003 07:38									#41
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I like listening to conserwatiwe talk shows like Michael Sawage because its great fun to listen to the dirwel they spit out. (the key is broke on the keyboard)

michael ick
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	04-03-2003 07:50									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed if one had sense, and an actual appreciation for news, one would read all sides of the issue: meaning both the "liberal" and the "conservative" media, and play them off against each other-- allowing one to read between the lines at what both of them refuse to report.

	04-03-2003 07:51									#43
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FOX ... now weren't they that quality news program of paragon objectivity which gives public people nicknames like "Jihad Johnny" (John Walker Lindh)?

I'm studying Journalism at the University of Columbia Missouri, the world's first Journalism school (for whatever that's worth) and I can tell you that FOX's stock here is very, very low.

	04-03-2003 07:54									#44
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Japan has been good to us since WWII. I don't know why they think they should have to make these commercials.

News sucks. All of it.

	04-03-2003 08:10									#45
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The best stuff I see tends to be on Public Television. The News Hour has been the best single news broadcast since it came on the air IMO. For documentaries Frontline has been getting better and better. I also watch NBC and BBC just to get a feel for what other people are being fed. (Information content of either is low)

I don't have cable, and don't miss it.

	04-03-2003 08:19									#46
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I didn't even know you had a public television in the US does anybody watch it ?

	04-03-2003 08:22									#47
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yes, but not as many as there should be.

there are great and amazing documentaries and educational programs (nova, for one, and the aforementioned frontline), but viewership for those channels pales in comparison to the networks like fox, hbo, nbc, cbs, and abc. obviously, people want to know more about the hoebag who's being "married by america" than how the universe came into existence.

	04-03-2003 08:25									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I didn't even know you had a public television in the US does anybody watch it ?

Yes, The News Hour is the best choice for news. Frontline is really a documentary program. I don't consider it news.

	04-03-2003 08:35									#49
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quote: Drake, it's not exactly irrational. when another nation forcibly annexes yours and occupies it in one of the most brutal regimes ever imagined because of its militarization, it's kinda hard not to be somewhat afraid of it.

Fear of a remilitarized Japan would indeed be rational. Fear of Japanese involvement in peacekeeping operations, however, is absurd. The Chinese and South Koreans are making a mountain out of a mole hill...

	04-03-2003 08:44									#50
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quote: Fear of a remilitarized Japan would indeed be rational. Fear of Japanese involvement in peacekeeping operations, however, is absurd. The Chinese and South Koreans are making a mountain out of a mole hill...

Japanese involvement in peacekeeping operations meant that their troops, to be used for "self-defence" purposes as stated in their constitution, oughtn't be used outside of japan.

much like the situation when germany finally sent troops outside of germany during the balkan situation, the neighbors weren't too happy about that.

it's not irrational, it's understandable.

especially since japan seems to be considering a remilitarization and a more proactive defensive stance-- and unlike germany, it never apologized, nor does it seem to greive, for what it did leading up to the destruction of hiroshima and nagasaki.

that, and its current prime minister has repeatedly visited a shrine that houses the names of war criminals.

	04-03-2003 08:46									#51
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I didn't even know you had a public television in the US

It's run mostly on donations from viewers. It goes to the most households of any TV network: 99%.

especially since japan seems to be considering a remilitarization and a more proactive defensive stance

Well, if the rest of the region would help clean up the sh!t in the neighborhood, Japan might take a less proactive stance. SK needs to factor that in when it tries appeasement.

	04-03-2003 08:54									#52
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quote: Japanese involvement in peacekeeping operations meant that their troops, to be used for "self-defence" purposes as stated in their constitution, oughtn't be used outside of japan.

The Japanese Constitution allows for the deployment of troops outside Japan for peacekeeping missions. There was a lengthy debate within Japan that determined this.

quote: it's not irrational, it's understandable.

It's irrational. Japanese involvement in peacekeeping is nothing to fear.

quote: especially since japan seems to be considering a remilitarization and a more proactive defensive stance

BS. The Japanese are still as pacifist as ever and have fought US pressure for them to be more military assertive in the region.

quote: that, and its current prime minister has repeatedly visited a shrine that houses the names of war criminals.

There's no shame in a Japanese leader visiting the Yasukuni Shrine; it's meant to honor all those who fought for Japan, even those who made horrible mistakes.

	04-03-2003 09:00									#53
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quote: Originally posted by ranskaldan Japan isn't exactly supposed to send troops outside of its own borders, under the post-WW2 constitution. China and SK (IIRC) have been complaining about Japan's involvement in peacekeeping missions. Betcha this ad has something to do with that.

Japanese courts ruled Japanese soldiers could go abroad for noncombat missions with international organizations.

	04-03-2003 09:27									#54
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quote: The Japanese Constitution allows for the deployment of troops outside Japan for peacekeeping missions. There was a lengthy debate within Japan that determined this.

i realize this. doesn't mean that china and korea have to be happy with the result.

quote: It's irrational. Japanese involvement in peacekeeping is nothing to fear.

not japanese involvement in peacekeeping. japanese troops, period.

quote: BS. The Japanese are still as pacifist as ever and have fought US pressure for them to be more military assertive in the region.

they have also sought to defend themselves, and have even suggested that they would be far more aggressive in the future.
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quote: There's no shame in a Japanese leader visiting the Yasukuni Shrine; it's meant to honor all those who fought for Japan, even those who made horrible mistakes.

including those responsible for the drafting of comfort women, for those responsible for biological experimentation on prisoners, for those responsible for slave labor, for those responsible for nanking...
it's a shrine that holds the names of many noble soldiers; that's not what the koreans and the chinese protest. it's the fact that the war criminals were added, secretly, and were never taken off.

look, i'm not saying that i have a fear of a remilitarized japan. i'm just saying, japan has much to fear from a nuclear nkorea, and even more so from a nuclear reunified korea; korea and china have much to fear from japan; and korea and japan ought to fear china much more than they do already.

it's rational, i think. all of them have very valid greivances against each other, all of them are naturally wary of each other. it's simply a matter of japan really needing to work hard in convincing the other nations that it's got no territorial ambitions; and it'll have to face down a good deal of history to prove that. an apology would be nice, for one. as would the removal of certain names from the yasukuni shrine.

	04-03-2003 09:36									#55
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When I first saw the ad, I thought it was just one of those issue ads that runs in D.C. regularly. I'm sure it's just one of those informative ads that nations run periodically to raise beltway interest in what they do.

Has anyone seen the Canadian ad calling Canada "America's Best Customer" and decrying the 25% tax on Canadian lumber...

	04-03-2003 09:39									#56
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quote: and it'll have to face down a good deal of history to prove that.

I guess fifty years of utter pacifism doesn't mean anything...

quote: an apology would be nice, for one.

The Japanese have apologized before; it's just never been good enough for the South Koreans who feel the need to lop their fingers off whenever a Japanese PM goes to the Yasukuni Shrine.

quote: as would the removal of certain names from the yasukuni shrine.

I guess forgiving the sins of the dead is out of the question...

I get so sick of all this bullshit. East Asia is going to explode into violence in a few decades, all because the people in the area are more concerned with holding historical grudges than actually working for peace...

	04-03-2003 09:41									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten There's no shame in a Japanese leader visiting the Yasukuni Shrine; it's meant to honor all those who fought for Japan, even those who made horrible mistakes.

The Shrine was built to glorify all those hideous war criminals killed in all those wars of aggression conducted against the neighbours after Meiji Restoration. There was not one single defensive war after that.

	04-03-2003 09:47									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: an apology would be nice, for one. The Japanese have apologized before; it's just never been good enough for the South Koreans who feel the need to lop their fingers off whenever a Japanese PM goes to the Yasukuni Shrine.

I wasn't aware there has been any official apology on behalf of Japan and the Japanese people, and that Japanese history books acknowledged and taught the horrors Japan has perpetuated during the war.

Dealing with the past is extremely different with forgetting the past. It is a painful task, especially for those who have to cope with the guilt of their ancestors while being innocent themselves.

Germany has done so for 50 years about the Jews and the whole WW2, and is beginning to overcome it. France has recently overcome his pro-nazi behaviour in WW2, and is currently overcoming the horrors made on its behalf during the Algerian war. It is painful, but after that, we can expect to be at peace with the past, rather than having it haunting us long, long, long after.

	04-03-2003 09:48									#59
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At least Japanese human rights abuses are dead and not serving in the government like Chinese ones...

	04-03-2003 09:51									#60
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quote: I wasn't aware there has been any official apology on behalf of Japan and the Japanese people

There have been apologies on specific issues, like the comfort women. There's never been a blanket apology for everything that happened, but I don't really see the difference between that and doing it piecemeal.

http://www.jei.org/Archive/JEIR98/9839w4.html

quote: and that Japanese history books acknowledged and taught the horrors Japan has perpetuated during the war.

The textbooks still whitewash Japanese actions, which is one of my major issues with the Japanese. It's no reason to cut off your fingers or protest Japanese peacekeepers, however...