24-05-2003 13:22									#61
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Again, correct. Do you feel like running some tests...?

	25-05-2003 05:27									#62
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

A couple of my own experiments:

1) Catapults seem to be worth somewhere between 1/3 and 1/4 of a regular warrior in the strength calculations, possibly exactly 1/4 with the variation I saw accounted for by rounding error.

2) For purposes of strength calculations, what counts seems to be the current number of hit points remaining. Hit points units have lost due to damage but could get back if they healed seem to be irrelevant.

	25-05-2003 09:52									#63
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Catapult/Warrior
119/40 = Weak
120/40 = Average

Catapult = 0.27 Warriors


Warrior/20-Bombard-Catapult
42/40 = Weak
43/40 = Average

20-Bombard-Catapult = 1.3 Warriors


Warrior/100-Bombard-Catapult
106/20 = Weak
107/20 = Average

100-Bombard-Catapult = 6.6 Warriors


So the factor for bombard is:
Bombard / 15


I'm going to bed, I'll let someone else test firepower.
It might be better to multiply everything by 3, which gives an integer for all non-UUs and a nice decimal for catapults.

	25-05-2003 13:20									#64
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by DaveMcW Catapult/Warrior 119/40 = Weak 120/40 = Average

Hold on there. Did you have 30 cities to avoid paying Army Support Cost? Did the other civ have 10?

(this holds for Despotism - with Monarchy, you might need more)

	25-05-2003 19:08									#65
	Increase Your PM Length

This is in 4000BC. You have no upkeep if you have no cities.

	29-07-2003 17:49									#66
	Inflate your Upload Space

I actually got:

• 1 Catapult = 0.2667 Warriors (= 4/15)
  

Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 30-07-2003 at 12:18

	30-07-2003 10:50									#67
	Increase Your PM Length

Great work!

Btw, are you sure the formula is correct for calculating strength of bombardment units? I mean, AFAIK artillery-type units don't have hitpoints, so (Hitpoints / 3) and thus the value of any bomb. unit's strength would always be 0

I suppose there are actually two different formulas, one for "normal" A/D units and one for artillery-type units. Either that or bombardment artilery-type units are always calculated as having hitpoints=3 (for the sake of calculating the unit's strength only).

Edit: it must be the second alternative, to make it possible to calculate the strength of ships with bomb. capabilities, who have both hitpoints and bomb. strength value.

Last edited by Tiberius on 30-07-2003 at 11:07

	30-07-2003 12:18									#68
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

You're correct. I added your "second assumption".

	06-02-2004 14:11									#69
	Get a bigger avatar today!

*bump*

Now, why isn't this thread included in the 'Must read' section?

It may of course be because the formula isn't quite finished yet.

	09-02-2004 13:30									#70
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Because no one thought of doing that before.

The formula may or may not be finished - not everything has been tested, but it is pretty close.

	09-02-2004 13:38									#71
	Increase Your PM Length

Only thing left is to find out how big that 'unitupkeepfactor' is.

	10-02-2004 16:40									#72
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by nbarclay Five hitpoints, unless one of the first two warriors destroys it, since its second victory would be guaranteed to get the tank promoted to elite. And "definitely" may be pushing it. 17x4 = 68, while 8x5=40. So if odds correspond roughly to those multiples (and I'm not sure to what extent they do), the tank probably has a chance at fending off all seventeen. Of course if the tank is fortified...

And then with the strong possibilty that when your tank gets redlined it retreats, the rest of the warriors won't be able to reach it!

	10-02-2004 23:36									#73
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I used DES to run 100 trials and the tank won only 10 times without bonuses. Given fort and hillls it got to almost dead even.

Of course in the game anything can happen, but in CivIII it is unlikely that any unit will win between 68-85 rounds. Maybe 89 counting 4 hp's for the tank.

	11-02-2004 14:29									#74
	Remove this text

Whats DES? Some sort of a combat calculator?

Did some 'real' testing with a hotseat game btw, so far the results indicate that the UU factor is a bit low(my results suggest it should be around 1.03 rather than 1.01)

	11-02-2004 21:38									#75
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes, I got it either here or CFC in the utility section.

	11-02-2004 22:45									#76
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Do you have a link or a complete name for it? I've tried finding it earlier without much success.

(All I've got is some perl script I wrote myself. Not exactly sophisticated stuff...)

	13-02-2004 00:22									#77
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by badams52 "You're letting our crack troops go to waste, sir. Let's go bonk some heads." "All the world marvels at our superior intellect, sire." Can't believe I still have some of them memorized.

I used to hear all the time "BUILD CITY WALLS!" Of course with the Civ2 AI so clueless there was rarely a need to have troops in a city let alone build city walls...


My favorite was the way that Elvis would always say "Oh yeah. Uh-huh." after the Science guy said something geeky.

	13-02-2004 02:40									#78
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

http://mil-sim.net/

It is called Direct engagement Simulator.

	13-02-2004 15:32									#79
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Threads like this are the reason Apolyton rocks.

Thanks, BFM.

	14-02-2004 14:30									#80
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie I liked the video animated advisors of CIV 2, with Elvis and Schwartzkopf look-a-likes. They never got boring.

hahaha me too "aha uhu"

yes indeed, WHERE DID THEY GO??? i seriously recommend sid meyer to put them back in. i still play civ 2 just for the sake of hearing what the advisors would say
I also think civ 2 advisors weremutch smarter! (both video and on map) civ 3 help SUCKS

	12-03-2004 07:21									#81
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I was looking for some info about research costs and I found a link to this thread in a thread posted by Theseus.

I just wanted to add that formula here is pretty close to what I tested for the ISDG team here at Apolyton. The only thing I would like to add is that the game looks at the relaitive defensive strengths of units on a particular turn when the computations are made. To put it simply; I found out that I can change the F3 values by simply moving a unit from a plains tile to a mountain, thereby increasing the units defensive value.

I just sort of stumbled onto it.

	12-03-2004 07:40									#82
	Support Apolyton

Actually, I was the one to first discover it, you later tested it.

	12-03-2004 12:48									#83
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

That's interesting

So if you move a bunch of pikemen from plains to a fortress on a mountain you can go from weak to strong in a turn...

	12-03-2004 23:36									#84
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by bongo That's interesting So if you move a bunch of pikemen from plains to a fortress on a mountain you can go from weak to strong in a turn...

Depends on how big of an army you have compared to everyone else.

	12-03-2004 23:45									#85
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Well, if your army was 100% pikemen, and you moved all to a mounaintop fort and fortified them you would get....3*(1+1+0.5+0.25)=8.25 defense...so a vet pike would go from 2.4 to 5.2 points...an increase of about 116% More than enough *if* your enemy was barely stronger than you.

	15-03-2004 15:47									#86
	Tired of ads?

Yes, that could happen.