12-03-2003 19:18									#61
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So would I... Does better land mean better specials, more huts, surrounded by land and not stuck on a little finger... I've hosted some games where I've had awful starting positions.

	12-03-2003 19:21									#62
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@DrSpike&Graag: I´m at work at the moment. I´ll report something about it at friday

	12-03-2003 19:22									#63
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by atawa unless you set it to destroy civ upon retirement or how its called.

Ahh, yes, now it makes sense. Thx.

	17-03-2003 16:04									#64
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I did a couple of test series last weekend. The advantages of the host as I thought were reduced to one. The Quality of the Land, the specials and huts don´t matter.
The only thing that counts is the size of land every civ has. The PC compares the landsize of each civ to the others and gives bonus techs for the smaller ones. The civ with the largest land never gets bonus techs. In SP every other civ gets between 1 to 7, if land is small enough. In MP these bonus techs were cancelt, except of the host. What is the consequence? If host has the largest land, he won´t get techs, if his land is a little bit smaller, he won´t, if his land is very small, he´ll get techs.
What is a little bit and very small? I hadn´t enough time to find a formula, there are still more tests necessary. But I´m on the way. An example: host has an Island size 100 squares: he would get 1 tech if his foe´s land is between 200 and 299, 2 tech if it´s between 300 and 499 and so on.
I´ll post more next week.

	17-03-2003 16:20									#65
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So there would be no advantage in a single continent game? Also, with an islands game you know you'll probably have to expand to other landmasses soon anyway......I'm not sure having the smallest land is necessarily going to be detrimental to your chances, particularly since you think there is no host advantage with quality of land.

This evidence seems a little spurious so far.

	17-03-2003 16:38									#66
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In a single continent game, the landmass is devided by some rules I don´t know till now. Last week we had a 4-players-MPgame, I was host and had one tech, but we were all on the same continent. I was on the upper left corner. Maybe the PC makes borderlines between the starting positions and counts.

	17-03-2003 18:03									#67
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Maybe that's why we don't see any advantage. On 39x49 maps everyone is close. Heck I've hosted and started within 10 squares of my opponents and not gotten a tech. We always play on one large continent.

	04-12-2003 00:19									#68
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When gets the Host starting techs?

You know, in a multiplayer game gets the host sometimes starting techs, for the other players is this function suppressed.
Now I worked it out, how it works. I explain it only for the host.

There are 2 Factors which were added:

1. Land size
Civilization2 counts the squares of land that every player has on his continent.
The program classifies 7 classes of land size:
Class 1: less than 50 Squares
Class 2: 50-99 Squares
Class 3: 100-149 Squares
Class 4: 150-199 Squares
Class 5: 200-249 Squares
Class 6: 250-299 Squares
Class 7: at least 300 Squares

Host gets one starting tech for every class he is below his opponent after the first.
An example: hosts land has 125 squares, he is in class 3. His opponent has a land with 256 squares, class 6. The first class difference is free, host gets 2 starting techs for the land size.
Host can get a maximum of 5 techs for the land size (if he is in class 1 and the opponent in class 7)!

Btw: if opponents land is smaller than hosts land, the opponent would get techs, too, but this function is suppressed. Internally it counts for the addition with the second factor:

2. Quality of the starting screen in combination with land size
No matter how the rest of the land is, only the 21 squares of the starting screen of each player count.
Civ2 differentiates only 2 factors for the quality – and so for starting techs:
At least 4 squares of grassland – or not
At least 4 Squares of river – or not.
(in the consequence,“river” means at least 4 squares of river, “grassland” means a least 4 squares of grassland)
Op. has grassland, the host not and no river gives 2 techs additional to the techs for land size
Op. has river, the host grassland gives 2 techs additional to the techs for land size
Op. has river, the host no river and no grassland gives 4 techs additional to the techs for land size
This counts, if hosts class of land size is below his opponents.
If host and opponent are in the same class of land size, everything is reduced by 1
If host is in a higher class of land size, everything is reduced by 1 for each class (plus 1 for even)
Examples:
A) host has a small island class 3 with grassland, his opponent has a continent class 5 with river
host gets 1 starting techs for the landsize plus 2 techs for Quality = 3 starting techs
B) host has land class 5 with grassland, op. on the same continent has river = 1 starting tech
C) host has large continent size 7 with 3 whales, 1wine, 3 grassland and 3 riversquares in starting screen , op has land size 5, dessert with a river, host gets 1 starting tech.

What does this for your duells on 39*49? Both are in the same landsize, if there´s only one continent. If host has less grassland or no river, his op. has, host gets 1 or 3 starting techs.
Here´s an overview, how many starting techs were given in duells. For more player it´s nearly the same. Host will be compared with the best opponent.

edit: I can´t attach my .jpg file

	04-12-2003 00:23									#69
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.

Attachment: startingtechs.jpg
This has been downloaded 27 time(s).

	04-12-2003 00:26									#70
	Increase Your PM Length

Very interesting...........probably reinforces the idea that conditional on clean starts the host does have a better chance of the best starting position.

	04-12-2003 01:43									#71
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Yes, but when playing 2x, unshielded grassland is not as desirable, so having more of it, isn't really an advantage. The rivers are though. The number and type of specials seems not to be taken into account, so lack of techs may not acurately reflect quality of starting position.

Opening up the screen and seeing 21 grassland squares is not the screen I want to see.

	05-12-2003 19:40									#72
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quote: Originally posted by rah Opening up the screen and seeing 21 grassland squares is not the screen I want to see.

Which is pretty much what I saw when I played last week...

	06-12-2003 01:57									#73
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

And I'm sure you didn't consider the same "great start" the program did.

Also, an early hut is quite advantagous, but not taken into account either.