06-03-2003 12:33									#31
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quote: Originally posted by MalevolentLight I'd rather be losing without lag than with it.

You mean you actually lose sometimes?

	07-03-2003 02:47									#33
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Huts are not a dissadvantage, war. They are a GREAT advantage. The only sure way to NOT get any units or citys from huts is NOT to open any.
Not opening huts is not a strategy to consistant victory.

	07-03-2003 03:14									#34
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But you still need to consider the ramifications of popping those huts..........well, at least on some more skilful settings you do.

	07-03-2003 04:04									#35
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i agree strat , the only time i don't pop a hut is if monarchy is coming up on the oedo year, otherwise i pop em all and pray !!!

	07-03-2003 13:17									#36
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i am firm member of the pop and pray school of thought, even when i get huts next to my first couple of undefended cities. which is a bit silly.

many years ago i had a theory that what yougot from a hut depended on the direction you entered the square. but i tested it and it was bobbins.

	07-03-2003 19:46									#37
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Yes, there are only a few times when I will delay opening a hut.

1. I'm about ready to build a city in range of the hut, I may delay a turn or two.

2. I'm researching my "off path" tech to monarchy or "code of law" (still on the path) and it won't be that long before I'll be able to choose monarchy.

Note: this exception is one I will violate if I think I'm behind or I don't think I can protect the hut that long, or I need the popper to further explore, OR I just feel risky. But about half the time I do it, I get the crap tech and pay for it by being in despotism an extra 400 years. Which I spend yelling at myself for breaking that rule.

3. Or like War said, a turn or so from Monarchy and the extra beaker requirement will make me just miss an Oedo year.

4. If I just got a nomad and am building a city with him the next turn, I will wait a turn for the city to be formed before popping the hut in hopes of a better chance to get a another one.

5. using my second settler after the cap is founded. I'll wait to open it with a unit. (unless I feel I'm way way far behind, which doesn't happen often)

Other than that, If there's a hut, it's popped.

RAH

	07-03-2003 21:14									#38
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i try to pop as many huts as possible when researching Code of Laws...this is the one tech which leads me to believe that nomads/tribes are in abundance....

again i can't prove it, but of all the techs i research early, i KNOW COL gives me better results

	07-03-2003 21:24									#39
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I pretty much follow what Rah says (no surprise there)

And war... maybe some research is needed on your theory.. but I have seen no evidence of what you suggest.

	07-03-2003 22:02									#40
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Yeah, war, maybe a little research is needed, especially since that is in that narrow period when getting extra techs will kill you the most. (unless you're already off the path).

	07-03-2003 22:06									#41
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I have never seen anyone make a similar assertion about COL, and don't recall seeing any patterns myself. Still, test away War. You could have found "The War4ever hut effect" that will live on forever.

	07-03-2003 22:10									#42
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There are definately patches where one player gets a rash of tribes/nomads, and I'm sure a reason/pattern can be found.

Though either way huts are just another of civs little random twists that have made it last this long.

	07-03-2003 22:22									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Graag There are definately patches where one player gets a rash of tribes/nomads, and I'm sure a reason/pattern can be found. Though either way huts are just another of civs little random twists that have made it last this long.

Yes, the random twists is what keeps it fresh.

For the reason, I'm betting on my good friend "laws of probablitilites, the outlyers".

RAH

	07-03-2003 22:34									#44
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Agreed. Particularly since you focus on the 'coincidences', as with anything in life.

	07-03-2003 22:41									#45
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Finding huts and nomads are not completely random.

Some factors increase/decrease your chances.

	07-03-2003 22:49									#46
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Wasn't there a thread on this topic that had a few interesting things in it ?

	07-03-2003 23:21									#47
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Yeah Samson's hut thread was interesting. Nothing about CoL that I recall though.

	07-03-2003 23:23									#48
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quote: Originally posted by atawa Finding huts and nomads are not completely random. Some factors increase/decrease your chances.

Agreed about finding huts, not random at all.

	07-03-2003 23:43									#49
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well i have noticed this, either you get war techs or science techs on the path to republic...ie col, alpha, mysticism etc....now i know you need the prereqs for this, but i think maybe the civ you take, and its preferred govt choice as set out in the rules.txt could determine which path you take.

for instance, i either get HR, masonry, wc, or i get the col, alpha, mysticism line of techs with BW in there as well....sometimes CB as well...

so its either a bunch of good techs, and monarchy by 2850-3050 in sp mode or a bunch of crap and then the other pattern.

if you open enough huts your screwed, b/c you will get tech off the path.....

but in your initial hut search , these patterns come out loud and clear for me....i have done a lot of sp mode testing by opening say 10 huts or so on the world map.
again as the chinese

	08-03-2003 00:10									#50
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Hey war... check this thread out...

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...73&pagenumber=1

	08-03-2003 01:24									#51
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YES i remember and reread this thread, but am a bit lost following it all....i may have to do some testing on my own..... b/c i certainly think the COL rule is in effect.

	12-03-2003 18:26									#52
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You´re right, the host gets the best starting position when he´s clean. You can test it easyly for yourself. Start a 4-player-MP-game and choose „show human starting position“ (or so, i have the german version) .
That´s the reason why in our league the weaker player gets the right to host.
In the last weaks a new idea came up: if you want to play a duel then choose 3 players. The second player saves at the beginning and the host quits game. After the second player becomes host, the first player rejoins as the former AI and now nobody has a starting tech or an extremly better place than the other.

Last edited by Cobra on 17-03-2003 at 15:32

	12-03-2003 18:30									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Cobra In the last weaks a new idea came up: if you want to play a duel then choose 3 players. The second player saves at the beginning and the host quits game. After the second player gets host, the first player rejoins as the former AI and now nobody has a starting tech or an extremly better place than the other.

Cunning.

Has anyone in the German league tested the starts for the alleged advantage?

	12-03-2003 18:50									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Cobra You´re right, the host gets the best starting position when he´s clean. You can test it easyly for yourself. Start a 4-player-MP-game and choose „show human starting position“ (or so, i have the german version) .

The show human starting position only works when you have 4 humans in the game. You keep saying they get the best starting position, but have yet to quantify it. What makes a better starting position? Just how much better (if any) statistically is it? When I did some testing, I didn't see any obvious advantages and could see no patterns. Until we see some test results, it's still just an opinion.

And on your 3man duel proposal. Am I missing something or does this mean an AI is present in your duels?

	12-03-2003 18:55									#55
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quote: Originally posted by rah And on your 3man duel proposal. Am I missing something or does this mean an AI is present in your duels?

No, the original host quits, and takes the AI civ upon his return. Presumably, the alleged host advantage would then die with the deposed host, since the new host would be the second civ placed, and the old host would be the third (or vice versa).

At least I think that's what he meant

	12-03-2003 19:02									#57
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But doesn't the AI take over the civ the host quit?

Other than that it is a good way to get around any percieved host advantage, though like Rah I'd want to see some quantification of what makes a better starting position.

	12-03-2003 19:02									#58
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Hmm, guess I'm confused. Normally when a player quits, the AI takes over for their civ.

	12-03-2003 19:07									#59
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unless you set it to destroy civ upon retirement or how its called.

	12-03-2003 19:09									#60
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ah, yes. makes sense now.

but I still want to know what is considered a host advantage.