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chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Red face  Old Post 05-03-2003 21:21 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Yikes! 1 in 4 Americans lack health insurance! Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote:
Study: 75 million Americans without health insurance

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Laura Meckler

March 5, 2003 | Washington -- The sluggish economy and rising health costs are combining to cost more people their health insurance, with 75 million uninsured at some point during 2001 or 2002, a study finds.

In tight times, businesses cut back coverage or charge their workers more for it. The result: the ranks of the uninsured now cut deeper into the middle class. It's a scenario that could spur Congress, stalled now on how to solve the problem, to approve some sort of assistance.

"I think that there's more and more interest as the problem gets larger and larger," said Sen. John Breaux, D-La., who is proposing a major overhaul of the health insurance system.

Breaux wants everyone -- including workers, the elderly, the poor and veterans -- to get insurance from a central system, with subsidies for those who need help paying premiums.

Others have more modest plans. Some want to expand the Children's Health Insurance Program -- CHIP -- which offers subsidized coverage for more than 5 million kids in low-income, working families. Some, including President Bush, want to give people tax credits to help people pay for insurance they purchase on their own.

With little consensus about which approach is best, lawmakers have done nothing to alleviate the problem since 1997, when they created CHIP.

Now a coalition of diverse groups, including business, labor and several health organizations, has come together to push the issue in hundreds of events next week.

"We are moving toward a political tipping point will that will require real and meaningful action," said Ron Pollack, president of Families USA, a liberal consumer group that is part of the "Cover the Uninsured Week." Others on board: the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the Business Roundtable, the AFL-CIO, the American Medical Association and the Health Insurance Association of America.

Typically, the number of uninsured Americans is reported at about 41 million -- those without health insurance for all of 2001. That was up from 2000 after dropping for two years.

But the figure is much larger when a longer time span is examined and when people who are uninsured for only a fraction of the period are counted.

The elderly are covered by Medicare, but nearly one in three people under age 65 went without health insurance at some point during 2001-2002, according to the analysis of Census data by Families USA.

Ninety percent of them were uninsured for at least three months, and about 80 percent were in working families.

Studies have repeatedly found that people without insurance are less likely to see doctors and more likely to be diagnosed with illnesses late.

The coalition sponsoring next week's activities includes diverse groups often at odds with each other, who have pledged to set aside their differences to push for action on the issue generally.

The week will feature more than 500 events in about 100 communities across the country, including town hall meetings, health fairs and prayer breakfasts. Clergy are getting sample sermons and encouraged to preach about the issue next weekend. Photo exhibits in Washington and New York depict the faces of the uninsured, and the issue will feature in popular TV shows, including "ER" and "Law and Order: Special Victims Unit," the coalition said.

Funded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and other charitable foundations, the coalition is also spending $2.8 million to run TV and print ads in Washington and on national cable systems.

Also coming: A report from the Institute of Medicine this week on the financial and social impact that uninsured people have on communities.

The issue of the uninsured took on intense political currency in the early 1990s as the economy languished and health care spending skyrocketed. President Clinton put the matter atop his domestic agenda when taking office in 1992, but his sweeping plan to insure all Americans never made it out of Congress.

A weak economy brings the issue to the fore again, said Robert Blendon, a longtime health pollster at Harvard School of Public Health. "People stop talking about it as somebody else's problem," he said.

A weak economy also means lower tax collections and tight times for government budgets. "Interest in it goes up when government has the least money to deal with it," he said.

The problem, Breaux says, is that the current system puts people into boxes: Medicare for the elderly, Medicaid for the poor, employer-based for most working families and nothing for the uninsured. As a moderate Democrat known to work with Republicans, he hopes his ideas will be taken seriously.

"The idea would be to get rid of the box theory and say you get health care in this country not because you fit into some box, but you get it because you're an American citizen," he said in an interview. "Perhaps the problem has to get worse before we get a consensus, but it can't get much worse. We're on the edge of total collapse."


UNIVERSAL SOCIALIZED HEALTH CARE NOW!

Flubber is offline Flubber
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Aug 2000
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 21:22
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Yes

come to Canada where we all equally have to wait too long for many procedures and treatments

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 21:22
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Got spare money?

No.

Japher is offline Japher
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 21:24
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Your nutz! Socialized health care has it's own problems, and it has it's own place. HMOs are so corrupt, as well as private practiced, as they are, giving government I hand in it will only make it worse. You know everythning the feds touches rots.

DuncanK is offline DuncanK
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 21:28
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Japher,

The fed touches everything. Where have you been in the last 100 years or so. We need to step away from that small government view of things. We are never going back.

Wraith is offline Wraith
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Aug 1999
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 21:36
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Suffering from ads?

--"UNIVERSAL SOCIALIZED HEALTH CARE NOW!"

HMO Act of 1973...

--"The fed touches everything."

That is the problem, yes.

Wraith
"More law, less justice."
-- Cicero

DuncanK is offline DuncanK
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 21:39
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Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Wraith,

The problem is how they do it. Not whether they do it or not, because that's not going to change.

Starchild is offline Starchild
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 21:39
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Got spare money?

Healthcare along the American model organises demand by price. Healthcare in the UK organises demand by time. It's a choice of being able to pay for something, or you die, or being able to wait for an opening, or you die.

That said, European style healthcare is universal with limited waiting periods. This, however, is achieved by a large chunk of euro on healthcare.

Skywise is offline Skywise
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 21:44
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Just move to Canada, here health care is free......or included in our high taxes.....

hehe


Spec.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 21:45 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Too cold.

Inverse Icarus is offline Inverse Icarus
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 21:46 Visit Inverse Icarus's homepage!
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is this 75 million employed?

or do you just want to give the derelict health insurance for nothing in return?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 21:49 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Medical care is a human right. No one should be denied coverage for any reason.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 21:51
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che: There's a difference between entitlement programs and human rights. You seriously demean one by comparing it to the other.

Inverse Icarus is offline Inverse Icarus
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
che: There's a difference between entitlement programs and human rights. You seriously demean one by comparing it to the other.


i concur.

DuncanK is offline DuncanK
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 21:52
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Starchild,

Isn't the problem in Britain that not enough is spent on heath care? I think the US spends much more on Health Care.

Health care is going to be a big expense either way. In many ways the current system in the US is very inefficient. For example, there are several hospitals competing with each other in the same area and the facilities are not used near capacity. The competition prevents economies of scale.

DuncanK is offline DuncanK
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 21:54
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quote:
Originally posted by UberKruX
is this 75 million employed?

or do you just want to give the derelict health insurance for nothing in return?


Did you think our unemployment rate was 25%?

-derelict unemployed person

Inverse Icarus is offline Inverse Icarus
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quote:
Originally posted by DuncanK


Did you think our unemployment rate was 25%?

-derelict unemployed person


i should have stated that as "how much of this 75 million is unemployed / not legally employed"

duly noted.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 21:57 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DuncanK
In many ways the current system in the US is very inefficient. For example, there are several hospitals competing with each other in the same area and the facilities are not used near capacity. The competition prevents economies of scale.


There's also massive overhead in the private insurance system. Twenty-three percent of each dollar spent in the private system goes to overhead, less than ten percent in Medicare.

DuncanK is offline DuncanK
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
che: There's a difference between entitlement programs and human rights. You seriously demean one by comparing it to the other.


If I work as hard as eveyone else why shouldn't I get health care just because the economy is organised in such a way as not to provide my basic necessities so that I can afford them.

Starchild is offline Starchild
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 21:57
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The problem in Britain is that we've gone the exact opposite direction of the USA and built a purely socialistic healthservice and then added pieces of the freemarket to its internal functions. The entire thing creaks but never quite sinks, like a video of Titantic stuck on loop. To bring our spending up to the European average, we'd have to, I believe, double what we currently spend. However, that's not a fix all solution. We also need to devolve power over decisions and spending all the way to the most local level possible along with a bunch of other chances (vote Lib Dem!).

The NHS is a good metaphor for most of the UK in general. It all creaks and borders on collapse but everyone unconsciously recognises that it's far too much trouble and bother to actually go all the way and let it fall apart.

DuncanK is offline DuncanK
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 21:59
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quote:
Originally posted by UberKruX


i should have stated that as "how much of this 75 million is unemployed / not legally employed"

duly noted.


But you still believe unemployed people are derelict?

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
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quote:
Originally posted by DuncanK
Isn't the problem in Britain that not enough is spent on heath care? I think the US spends much more on Health Care.


Nearly £70 billion will be spent on the NHS in 2003-4.

MikeH is offline MikeH
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Back of the envelope calculation... assuming 60 million people in the UK, 320 million in the US and $1.5 to the £ ...

Similar spending in the US would mean they had to spend about $557 billion a year on healthcare.

MikeH is offline MikeH
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That doesn't include any UK private healthcare spending obviously.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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We spend more than that. A lot more.

MikeH is offline MikeH
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Can't find anything quickly that covers their public healthcare spending but their overall spending seems to be about double per person.

DuncanK is offline DuncanK
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I think we spend more than that. It's like 20 or 25% of our GDP.

Inverse Icarus is offline Inverse Icarus
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quote:
Originally posted by DuncanK


But you still believe unemployed people are derelict?


der·e·lict ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dr-lkt)
adj.
Deserted by an owner or keeper; abandoned.
Run-down; dilapidated.
Neglectful of duty or obligation; remiss. See Synonyms at negligent.

n.
Abandoned property, especially a ship abandoned at sea.
A homeless or jobless person; a vagrant.
Law. Land left dry by a permanent recession of the water line.

yes. yes i do.

Wraith is offline Wraith
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--"The problem is how they do it. Not whether they do it or not, "

No, the root problem is that they do it. All you can do by changing the how is to ameliorate the problem a bit.

--"The competition prevents economies of scale."

In normal circumstances competition helps encourage companies to take advantage of that sort of thing. Health care is nowhere near normal circumanstaces, however. Too much competition is decidedly not the problem.

--"There's also massive overhead in the private insurance system. "

I would love to see where you get your figures on this one.

That said, it wouldn't suprise me too awful much. The problem is where that overhead is going. My doctor-before-last retired early because he got fed up with spending most of his time filling out government paperwork rather than seeing patients.

Wraith
"The government is good at one thing...it knows how to break your legs, and then hand you a crutch and say 'see if it weren't for the government you wouldn't be able to walk.'"
-- Harry Browne

DuncanK is offline DuncanK
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quote:
Originally posted by UberKruX


der·e·lict ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dr-lkt)
adj.
Deserted by an owner or keeper; abandoned.
Run-down; dilapidated.
Neglectful of duty or obligation; remiss. See Synonyms at negligent.

n.
Abandoned property, especially a ship abandoned at sea.
A homeless or jobless person; a vagrant.
Law. Land left dry by a permanent recession of the water line.

yes. yes i do.


Saying that a person is derelict is like saying that they are lazy by nature though. At least that's the way it's used in the US.

 
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