07-03-2003 04:48									#1
	Swordsman Upgrade Projection Discussion Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

By Roadcage's estimates, we will have iron access nationwide in 1075bc, approximately 12 turns from now.

Our current treasury is 221g, we are making 3gpt (which can be adjusted if necessary) and we can add in the spoils of 1 barbarian camp in the next 12 turns. That will give us @282 gold in 1075bc.

Madrid's barracks will finished in 1300bc, which will give us time to produce 8 warriors (assuming we keep Madrid at max production/zero growth) before iron is ready.

8 warriors costs 320 gold to upgrade.

Questions:

1) Do we want to build and upgrade all of our warriors in Madrid, or should we build less and include a few horsemen (and then upgrade a few of our warriors in the field?)

2) Do we want to increase our income to have the funds to upgrade 8 warriors?

Discuss.

--Togas

	07-03-2003 06:59									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

More Swords then a Horse of two. We can also be building a few horses in Saragossa while we are pumping out the Warriors.

Another thing to consider, we are either at or beyond our free support limits under despotism, so we should be building or treasury reserve now until we get some more cities built and before we go to Monarchy.

E_T

	07-03-2003 07:15									#3
	Support Apolyton

I am more for a gradual upgrade than any massive one. All we need to do is prove to ND that we have the capability to counter any aggression and the ability to defend our lands.

Parading one swordman in front of their scouts would be sufficient for that. We don't need to expend every bit of gold we have to get a massive force immediately. I think a more moderate approach should be adopted.

	07-03-2003 12:03									#4
	Remove this text

How is the comparitive military strength computed in the military advisor screen? If it is simply done by total number of units then allowing ND to see a Swordsman and a Horseman while maintaining an equal strength in unit numbers should at least force them to wonder if our units are all Horsemen/Swordsmen etc. I would think keeping all of Warriors out of site should help reinforce the concept that we may have upgraded all of them to Swordsmen.

I would also suggest that we only keep our best units in Madrid. If someone plans to go to war with us they will probably establish an embassy and if they see all veteran units in our capital it should cause them to recontemplate such an act.

	07-03-2003 12:17									#5
	Support Apolyton

The problem with that little theory is that they will know approxamately how much time it will take for those forces to reach the front. I would rather that they be stationed (after upgraded) in a more central location, preferable not in a city. THe more that they can't count, the more uncertain they might be.

E_T

	07-03-2003 13:17									#6
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God, I've been gone a while....

my only comment, therefore, is...

YEAH!!!!!!



It's about d--- time we got some iron and money for those upgrades!

All praise Lord Togas! He who sheparded our empire through our period without iron and ensured our survival, even or prosperity, though the harrowing period! All praise him more for that he will be leader of our time of receiving the gift of iron and using it throughout our now mighty empire!

	07-03-2003 13:20									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

As for the question in the thread. I'd prefer to have the 8 swordsmen, but I question whether it's worth dropping our science rate that much.

Don't really know for sure. Been too distracted of late with ISP issues and MoO3.

	07-03-2003 13:45									#8
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos As for the question in the thread. I'd prefer to have the 8 swordsmen, but I question whether it's worth dropping our science rate that much.

We could do that if we think again about that Great Library. At the present moment we are earning only 3 gpt, and every temple, barracks or unit we build substracts 1 from this number. So eventually we will have to end droping the tax science anyway. The question is: How much do we drop it?

	07-03-2003 23:39									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

As i have stated in my 'article' in the "I want war" thread of the 15th of February, it is no problem to drop the sciencerate on the short term when we are planning an attack or a big upgrade project for which we need a lot of money in little time. The impact of such a lowering of the science rate for a short time will be small.

However, if we are not planning such an attack or project, or we already have enough money, we can better not let the sciencerate drop because this will have a big inpact on our relative developingspeed (compared to the other countries) on the long term.

I agree with Oliver that in time we will be forced to drop our sciencerate unless we want to let our treasury run out, but dropping our science rate for this reason won't slow down our relative developingspeed because the others must face the same problems and are forced to lower their science rate too.

Aidun Cian

Last edited by Aidun on 07-03-2003 at 23:55

	08-03-2003 01:42									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Thrumble How is the comparitive military strength computed in the military advisor screen?

I think it takes the units strength into account... In SP games I often upgrades all my defensive units at once, and after this the military advisor sometimes says that my military improved. So there's something more than the number of units.

	08-03-2003 02:18									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Upgrade 4-5 now and station them in our near Santiago or Saragossa. These cities will likely be the target of any attack by ND if it comes. There is no reason to "break the bank" since we are not going to launch an attack in the near term. Just upgrade the remaining warriors at a gradual rate unless an emergency arises. I wouldn't build too many more swords. 8 swords, when all are upgraded, is close to enough for defense. We will want more horses long-term anyways. I haven't looked at a save yet, but I feel that as we build more interior cities, which will require less defense, such as sites 6, 7 and 8 our financial situation will not deteriorate by much. We just have to manage our unit production so we have defense while not sacrificing research too much. I generally don't like to drop my research below 70% unless it is just after a governent change and need to change it temporarily for financial and/or happiness reasons.

	08-03-2003 03:20									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I would ask for 8 upgrades if we were executing my attack plan exposed in the Competition thread. So, we could have 12 swordmen and 6 horses as offensive forces on the Santiago-Saragossa road and on the ND iron mountains (please read the related thread).

If we are not planning this attack, I say that 4 upgrades will be enough to ensure the Spanish security for the 30-40 next turns.