07-03-2003 07:26									#1
	Shadowbane Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well, I just noticed that Shadowbane has gone gold and will hit the shelves in a few weeks, and I'm thinking about geting it.

Anyone else here planning on geting it? I haven't been following it too closely, so fill me in on any pros/cons if you can.


Also - does anyone know if there will be a roleplaying server?

	07-03-2003 08:59									#2
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sb used to have a good buzz but lately it's been more negative. sb as i understood it was originally meant to be the ultimate pvp game but most pvp players i heard that played it in beta said it wasn't very good. i take this to mean that old uo was better for pvp since it's generally regarded as the best pvp mmorpg. i think to really like sb you'll have to like pvp since the whole game seems to revolve around it.

	07-03-2003 22:36									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

i some saw more comments on a thread. things don't look promising, but you can decide for yourself.

quote: I was in the beta test for a few months, although I could not stomach the game that long. I have not played SB for the past month. From what I remember and what I have heard, here is the deal... The game is laggy and unstable. The servers still crash about every 4 or 5 hours. So far, no city siege has ever worked (and this is The Big Thing) since anytime a huge group of players gets in one area (ie: To siege and defend a city) the servers always puke. There are still a lot of class balance problems, the game still has very dated graphics (although the avitars themselves are OK), and the world is very empty. The only big promise of fun in Shadowbane is PvP or GvG warfare, however, since no one has ever been able to actually siege a city without the servers crashing, it remains to be seen if PvP will be meaningfull (ie: there is a reason beyond the personal satisfaction of killing someone) in SB. I expect SB to be a nightmare for the first month at the very least since I do not think the servers will be able to handle the flood of people trying to play it.

here is another good one...

quote: I can't talk too much about it, since I am employed by the publisher, but it does have its upsides as well as its downsides. Playing AC2 opened my eyes to a lot of the things the SB people did get right. I can't comment on the stability issue, since I haven't actually tried to play the beta recently, but they were making some pretty massive strides the last time I checked. That said, I expect the launch to be fairly rocky. One thing you might want to watch out for, though, if you want to be competitive in the game, is that the people who show up on day 1 get a pretty significant advantage. The hardcore folks and their guilds are going to have cities up and running pretty quickly, and the johnny-come-laters will be hard-pressed to keep up with the people who are rolling their own magic items, training at higher levels and for cost, and have the ability to build siege engines. If you want to play on a level field (and the game is pretty much pvp-everywhere), you're going to want to get in on the ground floor. If you're not willing to risk it on day 1, keep an ear to the ground for new worlds being made available, because getting to the city-building stage first has fairly serious advantages. Or, at least it did.

taken from here - http://www.quartertothree.com/phpBB...opic.php?t=2503

some beta impressions -
http://www.waterthread.org/news/104580625822808.html

http://www.waterthread.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=129

	08-03-2003 01:41									#4
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The graphics don't bother me. (I actually prefer their simplistic style to that of world of warcraft's, actually) and PvP is the only reason I'm even considering it.

But the server stability and emptiness of the world are a bit disheartening... but, I would expect that in a beta. Do you know how long ago these where written?

	08-03-2003 13:36									#5
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these were posted very recently, only days ago since the nda was just lifted. in fact i think you can go read through the beta boards which had been closed before if you are really interested in sb. the last 2 links are much more positive than the 2 things i quoted but you can still see it has lots of problems.

however, it doesn't sound too much worse overall than any other mmorpg given it's advantages of pvp or gvg gameplay. right now sb seems like a game for only griefers or powergamers which isn't bad as it sounds. summary of the things i'd be somewhat worried about are a) lag and server stability b) there doesn't seem to really be too much to fight over meaning most conflicts are the result of politics/insults/etc c) imbalanced classes d) you still have to fight mindless ai monsters in order to get money(unless you can find a way to do it via pvp or gvg but that seems hard).

	08-03-2003 20:07									#6
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I'd have considered purchasing SB if it had gone gold about two years ago, but now it's strapped with outdated graphics and an outdated engine. The game world also only really works if there are enough players (no point in having a guild consisting of a single player), but I've no expectation of SB attracting a large enough fan base what with the rising levels of competition in the MMORPG market (AC 2, EQ 2, AO, etc). This is one I'm passing by.

	09-03-2003 00:13									#7
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I beta tested shadowbane for 18 months and the truth is.....it is horrible.


I dont know where to start on the games flaw.

Well I'll start at the most important point.

The game is supposed to NOT focus on levels.......it is. PVP is almost entirley level based-yes you may kill someone of a higher level but 2 level 10's will NOT kill a level 20, the level 20 will eat him for breakfast.

The VAST majority of your time will be spent hunting for gold/xp........though death penalties arent TOO bad. It is HOURS of mindless tedium.


Class balancing is a joke-i've yet to see any real balance in all the time I've played it.


"Raise cities and crush others-play to crush!"-the biggest lie of the game......The game is DOMINATED by people with no life, who-after every wipe would play for basically 48 hours and get the first city up in the mainland.


Side note: There are 2 "areas" in the game, a n00b starter island you stay on till 20, and the mainland, the mainland usually only has 2 or 3 entrances to it, and once you hit 20 you go there automatically, or you can go early but you cant go back.

The first group to get a city on the mainland can then level TONS faster then everyone else, and camps the mainland gateways, preventing anyone else from catching up.......Eventually a second group USUALLY manages to get a stronghold, but they are either wiped out by the nolifers(1 of a few group is always first...they play for 48 hours nonstop, and im NOT joking) or ally with them-thus preventing ANYONE else from getting to the mainland till a new wipe.......


Yes the game has some cool features, some of the class abilities are very cool, flying is nice, cities are..........interesting(dont know how to describe it, alot of good, ALOT of bad)-but those features dont override the general crummyniess of the game.

The game has leveling more tedius then EQ, balancing worse then DAOC and is more dominated by more no lifers then UO..........the suggestion of this tester: Dont waste your time on it-dont even bother getting the beta-it is complete excriment.

	09-03-2003 04:28									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Could you tell me more about the system used for leveling. You say it's more tedious then EQ, why?


I didn't think any game could have level advancement more tedious then EQ.

	01-04-2003 04:57									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

Well, I've gotten the game and it seems quite good.

The graphics are very good, if you ask me. I don't know why everyone's going on about how bad they are. It also runs about aswell as DAoC did for me, and I don't even meet the minimum requirements of the game. (but I'll feel it alot more since there's more PvP)

I've only gotten to level 4 so I can't say how tedious level advancement is, but from what I've seen it's not too bad, but not good either. There is atleast a ton of ways to customize and develope your character.

The community does not seem too bad either. I was disapointed that they didn't have a roleplaying server, but I've heard that Mourning has been decided apon as a sort of unofficial roleplaying server, and so far about 80% of the names I've seen have been in character (and even quite a bit more creative then I usually saw on DAoC's RPing servers) and everyone I've talked to (admittedly not many) has acted civilized.


If anyone's interested, I'm playing a Centaur soon-to-be Ranger named Staurlon Galeford on the Mourning server.

	01-04-2003 15:21									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

i'd be interested in reading more of your impressions as you become more experienced in the game. especially since this game is so focused on pvp.

	02-04-2003 02:08									#11
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Well, after visiting a real city I've realised that I can't play this game any longer untill I get my new computer.

I have made it to level 10, though, and have had fun hunting in some large groups of eight people. Despite having the opportunity of doing so, no one has stolen from one of my graves yet, either.

	04-04-2003 15:53									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I have one big complaint now.

There are tons of ways of customizing the development of your character (which is good) but there is no way of respeccing (which is bad) and very little information on what anything does (which is very bad).

Fortunetly, though, Shadowbane has the quickest leveling ever - I don't know what Veseyan was talking about. I've spent most of my time rerolling characters after learning how different things work. Which is just aswell, I suppose, since I don't think my computer could handle anything off the newbie island. I might aswell take the time to learn the game and iron out what I want while waiting for my new computer.

	13-04-2003 01:42									#13
	Mostly just a bump... isn't there anyone else here interested in this game? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Well, I've scraped my Ranger, and my Druid, and have made a Minotaur Warrior that I'm enjoying alot (aswell as a couple aracoix characters) - I'm level 23 now and geting a bit of a taste of PvP. Very fun. I almost killed my first elf, but she ran away, sicced her fiend on me, and portaled out (or invsibility or something - I'm not familiar with the spells yet). Typcial.

The last patch was an absolute godsend for me - it fixed a problem the game was having with windows 98 and stalling. The game runs pretty well on my computer now, and actually performs better then DAoC did - and I don't even meet the requirements for Shadowbane, or have to play with lowest graphics settings! (I'm using custom settings that are low-medium)


However, I have started to notice many more griefers and '1337 d00ds' now that the game has been out for a while... but you can always kill them, so it isn't so bad. But don't get me wrong, there are alot of great players, and there is a strong role play community on mourning.

	14-04-2003 00:43									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I want the game but I only have a Pentium II, 450 mhz with 128 MB of SDRAM. I haven't a prayer of running it well.

I also will never buy another MMORPG during the first month it is released because they NEVER start good (I got EQ when it first came out, and it was a pain getting in the game). Plus, I'm sure all the newbie areas are filled since everyone is a new player.

	14-04-2003 01:08									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hey osweld:

Nice seeing another rpg'er on the boards. I was considering buying Shadowbane myself, and was wondering: to what extent do you recommend it? Also, should I wait a while before purchasing, or jump on the boat as soon as possible? I'd like to hear more about what you think.

	14-04-2003 14:09									#16
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Although the fast levelling sounds good, after buying DAOC and AC2 and hating them both I don't intend to get into another MMORPG. I don't think I have enough spare time to do it justice anyway.

It's very interesting hearing what you have to say about the game, though, Osweld. Keep it up!
(some screenies might be nice too )

	15-04-2003 04:01									#17
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quote: [SIZE=1] Originally posted by dudemanjack I also will never buy another MMORPG during the first month it is released because they NEVER start good (I got EQ when it first came out, and it was a pain getting in the game). Plus, I'm sure all the newbie areas are filled since everyone is a new player.

That is true in Shadowbane's case aswell. Thankfully I can play in the mornings when there is no lag, but during prime-time it can get very laggy and the mourning server has been known to stall for up to 2 minutes at a time! The lag tonight is making the game virtually unplayable, but some nights it isn't too bad. They're still working out all the problems they're having with the servers.

Another thing I have noticed after traveling a little bit is that alot of the country side is absolutely barren - there are trees, hills, ect... but no life. I guess they expect the player made towns and such to fill this up, but even then I think they could use some more creatures in the world outside of set camp spots.

quote: Hey osweld: Nice seeing another rpg'er on the boards. I was considering buying Shadowbane myself, and was wondering: to what extent do you recommend it? Also, should I wait a while before purchasing, or jump on the boat as soon as possible? I'd like to hear more about what you think.

If you are familiar with MMORPGs I'd deffinately recomend it. A few of the things that make it different then the other's are:

Very quick leveling.

Open-pvp (but at levels 1-20 you stay on a seperate island where there is no pvp, and the starter towns in the mainland do not allow pvp within city limits).

Player made cities and empires.

The game isn't really focused on camping exp and loot, but more on politics, pvp, and war. It is a very guild-oriented game and I wouldn't recomend it if you really hate being part of a guild.

quote: (some screenies might be nice too )

I'll get some screenshots once I get ahold of my new computer (only a few more days! )

But, I did take a couple screenshots of my hulking minotaur warrior. Keep in mind the graphics settings are quite low

Front Profile

Side Profile

That human is barely taller then my knee.
Speaking of which, the size of your character is determined by it's strength, so although there aren't a whole lot of customization options at character creation (only hair, beard, skin, and clothes) people can still end up looking quite different from eachother.

	15-04-2003 04:09									#18
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

It sounds like it's going to be a good game. Maybe sometime in the summer I'll be able to get a good enough computer to run it.

	16-04-2003 20:28									#19
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Another really good thing about it is the curve in the gain you get from leveling. For instance, levels 1-19 you get 5 ability points to spend, 20-29 you get 4, ect... and it scales down untill at level 60 you are geting nothing except a small bonus to hitpoints and mana (which also decreases proportionally as you gain levels). I'm not sure if you continue to gain skill points, however.

I killed my first elf lastnight. She was a level 41 wizard and didn't stand a chance against my level 28 minotaur warrior. A few things to consider, though, is that since there are no high level trainers available (they can only be found in player made cities, and none of the guilds have gotten rich enough to build up that high) casters are a bit weaker, because they will often require a high level of training to get access to all of their spells. And she was also unprepared... but atleast she didn't run away or get a group of friends to help like all the others. And I did have the curtosey to call her a "stinkin' elf" before attacking atleast.

(and what makes it even sweeter is that she was a member of bloodaxe, a carry-over guild from my server on DAoC - a guild that I've always hated )

EDIT: I just saw Vesayen's post again - I really have no idea what he's talking about there, with not being able to kill people a higher level then you. obviously, that is not true if my warrior can kill someone 13 levels higher without even breaking a sweat. I'm begining to doubt he even played the game... or it must of been radically different in the beta phase that he took part in.

Last edited by General Ludd on 16-04-2003 at 20:35

	16-04-2003 21:35									#20
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http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp...09431&replies=6

just thought i'd share that.. damn i wish i could get this game. btw, i read scouts are the best 1 on 1 fighters but suck in group fighting. it really sounds like they have a good specialization balance going on.

	16-04-2003 22:18									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I don't think the game has been running long enough for anyone to be able to say anything about balance. But it seems to me that warriors are pretty good in straight forward combat, but casters can have a few tricks to their advantage, such as levitation or snaring, rooting, ect. but their spells are not increiblly damaging... atleast, not yet. Maybe that will change when high level trainers become available.

I fought a pair of casters with my warrior. One of them used a levitation spell to fly up in the air so I couldn't hit him (wish I'd brought a throwing axe) and kept snaring me, but he wasn't doing much damage - if the other one wasn't around I probably could of waited out his levitation and slaughtered him once he fell to the ground, out of stamina and mana . The other one had a pet who wasn't much to worry about and a really nasty damage over time spell. However, it wouldn't take much for me to kill her once I get up close, and she didn't seem to have anyway of slowing me down like the other one did. (and both of them where around level 35)



As for scouts, from what I understand, their big bonus is being the only class that is able to hunt thieves and stealthers down easily - that's what they're made for, and they are really good at it. They're also good with bows, but I haven't had any experience with that in PvP.

	17-04-2003 07:19									#22
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I want it! I want it! I want it!

Seriously, this game sounds like it is a lot of fun. I'm all about pvp combat and guild fighting. It is time to start getting some money together for a new computer.

	17-04-2003 15:52									#23
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Hopefully the lag will be gone by the time you're able to get it.

As it is, you aren't really missing out on anything now unless you are able to play in off-hours. I don't even bother trying to play past 3PM EST anymore. Ofcourse, I am on the most populated server.... I'll have to make a character on one of the emptier servers tonight and see what the lag is like on them.

	26-04-2003 17:25									#24
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I have a bit of a problem with the game taking screenshots, i can only seem to get one unique screen shot per session - every one I take after the first turns out the same for some reason. so I haven't gotten as many screenshots as I would of liked... but I did get a good number of screenshots from the siege on Xanten that began last night.

A little bit of background: Denied is a massive ARAC (all races all classes) guild on the mourning server, that everyone who is too weak or has no spine sub-guilds to for protection. Almost ever guild and nation that is not part of denied joined together today to attack their capital city, Xanten. (these are taken with minimum graphcis level because there where so many people, I think the first two might still be with high detail, or atleast some of the high res textures still in use)


Morloch's Vengeance prepares for the siege:


The troops in formation:


The remains of a city belonging to a sub-guild of denied which we passed on our way to Xanten:


The trebuchets are up, and the fight is going strong:


More:


That person in the middle with the blue shield and white swirly thing for a crest is a member of denied.


The siege began around 6:30, and when I left at 11:30 the siege was still going strong. We where rebuilding our trebuchets for the second time, Denied had built a couple mangonels inside their city as defense, and the battle outside of the walls was as fierce as ever.

Unfortunetly I didn't get any screenshots of the constant melee outside of the city, but I made a few recordings (which can only be viewed from within the game, I believe) that I'll see if I can get some shots from.

	26-04-2003 17:37									#25
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Thanks Osweld. That's the kind of fun stuff from MMORPG's that I never have the time to get too in the games.

	27-04-2003 00:54									#26
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Looks like some good fun!

	29-04-2003 02:00									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld I made a few recordings (which can only be viewed from within the game, I believe)

i love games which let you make replays/demos/etc. watching high skill replays from quake, wc3, or any high skill game is the equivalent of watching a sporting match for me.

	29-04-2003 06:23									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Xanten was broken that night and the walls where destroyed along with every other building not under the protection of the Tree of Life. The Bane Circle was activated today, making the remains of the city vulnerable to attack - we destroyed the Tree of Life and wiped the city from the map.

Here are a few screen shots from the final hours, and aftermath:









And a few miscellaneous shots:

	05-05-2003 22:35									#29
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think i'm going to get it soon! I believe there is a computer in my house that is a 700 Mhz AMD...if this is true I'll be taking that one and swap in my video card (or maybe buy a new one..). Do you think a voodoo 5 64 MB will be good enough or should I just buy a new one?

I'd REALLY like to buy a new computer but I don't think it is feasible at this point, and I DON'T want to wait until August to buy the game!

	06-05-2003 10:17									#30
	Put an end to popups!

i admit i'm having a great time just reading about sb just because i'm so interested in game design. lately it seems sb servers have been coming to an interesting situation. due to the way the game rules work it seems almost assured that given time one major power bloc will dominate a server thus making the game very static.

i wonder what ubi will do to fix this. many people seem to talk about interserver travel but at best that is a stopgap measure since if single servers eventually fall to 1 power bloc it seems likely one group might eventually dominate all servers. i've read lots of littles things that might help from making cities not appear on maps right away to faking guild shields, etc...

threads(i think they are both really damn interesting) where i saw this - first link is short, 2nd is really long and indepth...
http://www.quartertothree.com/phpBB...opic.php?t=3449
http://www.waterthread.org/forums/v...p?t=553&start=0