07-03-2003 10:31									#1
	Turn 68, 1325 BC Enter the AD-FREE zone

To be edited by the leaders of the Scholia.

Status:
- Research idling at 0% investment (technically on Philosophy). May get to start Republic this turn.
- 382 gold cash (including GoW's 100 surity), about +32 per turn if we don't start researching.

Urgent questions:
- What do we want to build in Tempest? (Currently set on a worker, but we could still change this turn or next.)
- How do we want to respond to Vox's request for gold?

Military:
- New settler in Cyclone moves 2-1 toward the site of the future city of ??? (Typhoon, maybe?)

Economy:
- If Vox delivers Philosophy this turn, set research to Republic at 100%.
- EotS finishes worker, starts another worker.
- Cyclone finishes settler, starts another settler.
- New worker in EotS moves 3.
- Rearrange EotS and Hurricane so Hurricane has all four irrigated furs and EotS works three flood plains and the mined grassland. (We're about to grow EotS half a pop point building a 3-tuirn worker, if that's okay with everyone, so EotS can afford to let Hurricane have the good tiles while we're doing that.)
- Worker on the horse tile finishes road, moves 7.
- Move Bolderburg's laborer currently on the unimproved grassland to the plains we're about to finish irrigating.
- Rearrange Tempest's laborers to work two flood plains.
- Make sure Cyclone is working the irrigated game, the mined wheat, and two roaded grasslands with shield.


Diplomacy:
- May have some residual communications with GoW to take care of.
- Need to address Vox's request for gold to buy Map Making from GoW.
- Need tell Vox what to research next.

Last edited by zeit on 07-03-2003 at 20:56

	07-03-2003 13:08									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

We can squeeze out an extra commerce by moving one of Cyclone's shielded grassland laborers (3) to tile 1 (where the road will be completed the next turn), opening up a roaded one for Tornado's new laborer to be born on.

Then on 1300BC (think 1275BC works too, but there isn't any difference between the two) we switch Tornado's shielded grassland laborer up to 89 to open the tile 3 from Cyclone for it's new laborer to be born on.

	07-03-2003 14:18									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Do you know whether you get commerce from a new laborer the turn he's born?

	07-03-2003 15:21									#4
	Tired of ads?

I double checked and you do. There is a thread about the turn order in the Strat forum. And here it is.

	07-03-2003 15:53									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Aha, again we learn something new .
-

	07-03-2003 17:05									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The way I read the tail end of the thread, it looks like commerce comes before growth, which would mean you don't get the gold for the new citizen.

	07-03-2003 17:20									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

That's how I read it before, so if you checked this, Aeson, it seems you need to post in the thread to counter this... I also was under the impression that science, and thus commerce was calculated before growth. Maybe I read it wrongly, but 2 people having the same idea certainly means it wasn't too clear before.

DeepO

	07-03-2003 17:31									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I just ran a test myself and the gold did not show up for the new laborer the turn the laborer appeared.

	07-03-2003 20:58									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Check Beta's last note- What do we want Vox to research next?

	07-03-2003 22:08									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

construction was being researched by someone else, no? I thought Trip said that before... which leaves either currency or polytheism.... both are fine by me, but most likely the Bobian civs are going for those two as well.

Maybe polytheism is best, as Vox has lousy research, and we need it by the time we get the republic, not 15 turns later. plus, it might open up the possibility of getting the HG afterwards, if someone would be so nice to research monarchy for us.

DeepO

	07-03-2003 22:14									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I agree with DeepO. Let Vox research the technology that their low science rate can still provide at a reasonable time.

	07-03-2003 22:34									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Why do we need monarchy?

	07-03-2003 23:52									#13
	Remove this text

In case we decide to build the Hanging Gardens.
First we gotta finish the Great Pyramids, though. Not that I'm against drooling over the possibility of building two ancient age wonders in Hurricane, I just think that planning so much ahead is pointless (though fun! ).

	08-03-2003 00:31									#14
	Suffering from ads?

Monarch is very low on my list though.
Something that is a nice bonus when signing a peace treaty, but I hardly want to see us spending either research or gold on it.

There are better wonders coming up, no need for the hanging gardens.

	08-03-2003 01:46									#15
	Tired of ads?

alva,

We still need polytheism to get out of the ancient era. It's gotta get researched by someone. Let's have Vox do it.

-Arrian

	08-03-2003 01:49									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Do we have any clues about who's researching what on Bob?

	08-03-2003 02:28									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

The primary targets on Bob are going to be Currency, Construction and Philosophy. Polytheism, being a low-priority tech and very cheap, would make an excellent research target for Vox.

	08-03-2003 02:42									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I just sent Vox a message (posted in the ambassador's office thread) reflecting our current thinking in case the turn reaches them before we make a more final decision.

	08-03-2003 02:46									#19
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Shiber The primary targets on Bob are going to be Currency, Construction and Philosophy. Polytheism, being a low-priority tech and very cheap, would make an excellent research target for Vox.

If no one is going to research it, why let Vox do it and be able to sell it for beaucoup gold.

Serious; How are we going to make sure, either Vox or us aren't going to sit idle for too many turns,
waiting for the other one to do the last ancient tech?

Maybe we should leave the cheapest one to be done last.
-
Arian ;

I know we still need Poly, but the Hanging gardens comes with Monarchy right?

	08-03-2003 02:52									#20
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Yep, HG is with Monarchy (Polytheism is a prereq for Monarchy). Not that the HG is all that great, but it would present a backup if we took a shot at the GL and missed.

-Arrian

	08-03-2003 02:57									#21
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Once we get in Republic, even Currency and Construction won't take us all that long. The real danger is getting stuck with Vox as a bottleneck, with Vox having to either finish its research at the pace of a despotic snail or lose time switching to Republic. Vox's transition to Republic won't be instantaneous, so if they're making the transition while we're finishing off the ancient techs, that won't be lost research time.

Also, Polytheism is probably Vox's only real chance to secure us a tech or two through trade without our having to give up the advantage of Republic. It may be a long shot, but at least it's a chance.

Nathan

	08-03-2003 02:59									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

If we miss the GL, won't there be a good chance to other new possibilities? We should be close to the middleages by then, no?

	08-03-2003 03:03									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

There's no way I want us to research Monarchy just to build a wonder. Beakers are too precious for that. On the other hand, if someone else researches it and we can get a good deal, that might be worth considering.

	08-03-2003 03:23									#24
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Sorry Nathan, something I was doing last night in my testing was giving me +1 gold. I can't reproduce it (by following what we want to do), so it must have been something we don't want to do.

I think Construction may be our most likely target. This guarantees us of being able to build an Aquaduct in Tempest at the right time (maybe 1 turn later), which is quite important for our overall production capacity. We get 19 shields per turn at size 6, which is horribly inefficient for building almost everything.

We may be able to beat any BOB civs to it as well, and the GW at least gives us a backup wonder that might be worth keeping out of the other teams hands. The shot at the GL in Tempest is a somewhat long one that could pay off very well. With the GL and Vox's help, we could end up with a quick 3-4 tech Middle Age lead which opens up a ton of opportunities. Of course with the GL we could also lay back off research a bit, save up gold and Horses/WC's, and have enough Knights to deal with Riders or Ansars (still a scary proposition though).

A Barracks and pure military buildup would certainly pay off if we are willing to use it against Vox, but then we end up losing our tech advantage (and Vox is likely to use The Republic to get some help). If we hit Vox and get a Leader for our FP, it might be game over.

Tough choice. At least most any direction we go with this is looking to be positive!

	08-03-2003 03:27									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Nathan,

I agree w/respect to Monarchy. No way are we researching it ourselves. Total waste.

So if Vox goes for Polytheism and we do Republic, yeah, Construction is not a bad idea at all since it allows aqueducts: expensive, yet important, city improvements. The same can be said for Currency, though. Either one works for me.

-Arrian

	08-03-2003 03:38									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Our next research target past Republic will depend heavily on the trade situation at the time. Vox might possibly be able to acquire Currency and/or Construction through trade (maybe throwing in some gold); that's a bit of a long shot, but not impossible. Or we might be getting jittery that someone else is close enough on our heels researching Republic that we need to go ahead and sell/trade it. On the other hand, if we don't have Construction and don't want to trade for it, it's almost definitely our logical next target after Republic.

I'm working on an idea of using Voxian gold to pay for our expenses and beelining for Military Tradition. It needs testing (which I don't have time for right now), but if it works, that plus Leo's could more than offset GoW's Riders and ND's Ansars.

	08-03-2003 04:55									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

okay, I'm a bit tipsy here, so pardon my expressions.

The problem is not so much as what we would get from the enxt tech, but what Vox might get from their next tech, I f we're not going to sell republic soon, let Vox reserch something they might trade, so we can benefit from their reserch, without exposing our own. Maybe polytheism gives us enogu to get to currency and construction without giveing away republic which would mean most civs are in the middle era, while only us and Vox are in a republic...

DeepO

	08-03-2003 18:11									#28
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Playing the turn now. Vox failed to deliver Philosophy this turn. Leaving science at 0%

Score information:

123 (+3) Gathering Storm
129 (+2) Demogyptica
109 (+2) Glory of War
137 (+3) Role Play
95 (+1) Vox Controli
143 (+2) Legoland

	08-03-2003 18:15									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Vox moved a laborer or some such and ended up not getting the tech yet.

	08-03-2003 18:22									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Turn and screenshots sent. Nothing else of importance happened.