07-03-2003 13:50									#1
	Ayn Rand Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Any of you guys read her? I read "The Fountainhead", I'd say that was the 2nd best book I've ever read (behind "The Power of One" by Bryce Courtney). I also liked "We The Living", definitely not the most uplifting book but moving, you really get into it.

Her philosophy, Objectivism, really makes alot of sense to me. It seems everyone everwhere these days has just settled for the medicroe life or is living a lie just because its easier.

Anyone else a fan? Or down to discuss/argue?

- Narz

	07-03-2003 13:52									#2
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You admit to being an Ayn Rand fan?

And you posted this right when the Euros are waking up.

Brilliant.

	07-03-2003 13:52									#3
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Uh oh, I sense that this post will be the source of much future tragedy....
I will play the role of peaceful mediator: why can't we libs and non-libs agree to disagree?

	07-03-2003 14:01									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Asher You admit to being an Ayn Rand fan? And you posted this right when the Euros are waking up. Brilliant.

The Euros are finally waking up? Well, that's good to know.

	07-03-2003 14:05									#5
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Ayn Rand was a parody writer. She obviously did read Jack London's The Iron Heel, which had copious ideology (socialism, in this case), rather turgid writing punctuated by philosophical screeds, and stupid names (like Ernest Everhard, gad!) and wrote a parody which took entirely another point of view. When she started to get fanboys, she decided to continue the joke, even taking it to her grave, and it still seems to be going strong.

	07-03-2003 14:07									#6
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Self-centered, egotistical *****.
That's what my friend Caitlin told me, and I'll trust her any day o' the week.

	07-03-2003 14:07									#7
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Was Ayn Rand hot?

	07-03-2003 14:09									#8
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rawr

	07-03-2003 14:10									#9
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Hmm, she might have been cute in her younger days, you never know.

	07-03-2003 14:10									#10
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what did they do to her face?

	07-03-2003 14:12									#11
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too much botox

	07-03-2003 14:14									#12
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Hot like having a foul temper?

	07-03-2003 14:16									#13
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Definitely not hot I'll give you guys that much. Her philosophy is pretty airtight though. I'm curious to hear what arguements the "Euros" (you say it as if they all share one mind ) have against it.

One thing it really made me rethink was Christianity and the idea that man is fundamentally a no-good, sinner who should humble himself before a judging God and go through life meekly, with no pride, turning the other cheek to those who'd like a smack at it.

I would enjoy a serious conversation but if people want to get riled up I'm sure I'll find that amusing as well.

- Narz 

	07-03-2003 14:17									#14
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She looks kind of cute in this one, in sort of a psychotic, disturbed, kind of way.
She looks like she might be some kind of goth, kinky chick.

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	07-03-2003 14:19									#15
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Narz "Euros" (you say it as if they all share one mind )

To say otherwise would imply they could think for themselves.

	07-03-2003 14:19									#16
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she looks like 'mummie dearest'

	07-03-2003 14:20									#17
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Objectivism airtight?

Michael Shermer's Why People Believe Weird Things has an entire chapter devoted to it. It is Ch. 8, "The Unlikeliest Cult."

	07-03-2003 14:20									#18
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She probably wouldn't be a very generous lover though.

	07-03-2003 14:22									#19
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IGOR FROM YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN! I knew i recognized her

	07-03-2003 14:24									#20
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I always thought there was something sexy about Emily Dickinson though.

	07-03-2003 14:31									#21
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quote: Posted by Urban Ranger Michael Shermer's Why People Believe Weird Things has an entire chapter devoted to it. It is Ch. 8, "The Unlikeliest Cult."

Thats nice, but it doesn't further the discussion any...
Kind of like quoting passages from the bible that no one will bother to check. Perhaps you'd like to enlighten us with some thoughts of your own?

	07-03-2003 14:43									#22
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quote: One thing it really made me rethink was Christianity and the idea that man is fundamentally a no-good, sinner who should humble himself before a judging God and go through life meekly, with no pride, turning the other cheek to those who'd like a smack at it.

You didn't know this allready? Wow the girl must be really smart to know these kind of things!

	07-03-2003 14:59									#23
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Narz, notice only personal attacks being levelled at Rand and nothing of substance? Me too.

	07-03-2003 15:20									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Narz Thats nice, but it doesn't further the discussion any... Kind of like quoting passages from the bible that no one will bother to check. Perhaps you'd like to enlighten us with some thoughts of your own?

Got news for you.

The book I referred to happens to be a very popular book for critical thinking. Michael Shermer is the head of the Skeptics Society. Take a look at their website. Go ahead.

	07-03-2003 15:21									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Narz, notice only personal attacks being levelled at Rand and nothing of substance? Me too.

The reason is that has been done to the death here.

	07-03-2003 15:36									#26
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I have read one Rand book. I forget what is was called, it was the one about the guy in the collapsed society who invents the light bulb. It was one of the most noxious pieces of drivel I have ever had the misfortune of being exposed to. Her glorification of the ego is, quite simply, wrong. It is a philosophy for people who cannot accept that other people have value.

And this is entirely subjective, but I got the distinct impression that she was high on something while writing the final chapters.

If you like heroes who impose their will on everyone else without thought for the consequences, I recommend Robert Howard´s books about Conan the Barbarian. They are a lot more fun to read, and have at least as much philosophical merit.

	07-03-2003 16:38									#27
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quote: It is a philosophy for people who cannot accept that other people have value.

I thought it was a philosophy for people who value freedom.

	07-03-2003 17:14									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker I thought it was a philosophy for people who value freedom.

Same thing. A person who maximises his own freedoms will neglect the freedoms of others.

	07-03-2003 17:16									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker I thought it was a philosophy for people who value freedom.

Sure, the freedom to dynamite a public building because someone changed your design. The ego of one architect is held to be more important than the shelter of hundreds of people. That´s like saying that Bill Gates has the inalienable right to write a virus to destroy every Windows PC in existence, just because the government required Microsoft to change some things in the code.

	07-03-2003 17:41									#30
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--"Anyone else a fan? Or down to discuss/argue?"

I am. I'm a neo-Objectivist. However, you just set yourself up for a very harsh reception. Rand is pretty much hated by most of the members of this forum.

--"Was Ayn Rand hot?"

When she was younger.

Although I fail to see why this is important.

--" Take a look at their website."

It's broken without javascript. Not very impressive...

--"It is a philosophy for people who cannot accept that other people have value."

See, this is the kind of weird conclusions people get that I just don't understand. She quite definitely doesn't believe that, since there are a number of people with high value she places in Atlas Shrugged.

--"A person who maximises his own freedoms will neglect the freedoms of others."

I'd point out the whole "rational self-interest" thing again, but I do realize it's pointless to argue this here.

--"Sure, the freedom to dynamite a public building because someone changed your design."

Those were the terms of the deal up front. If you don't like it, don't sign.

Wraith
"A Classic is a book that has never finished saying what it has to say"
-- Italo Calvino

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