14-03-2003 02:12									#271
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Pattycakes, when you are the one making wild accusations, the burden of proof is on you. You are the one who must produce facts. Since the facts are not yet available, you don't have any.

Which is why this thread is 14 pages of

-Arrian

	14-03-2003 02:12									#272
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This thread has gotten much better since I updated my ignore list LOL

Ozz-- no point arguing here. . . My interest in this case is piqued and I will keep track of developments. Once ALL the evidence is revealed, this individual case can be discussed intelligently. Until then, the best that can be done is discuss generalities

	14-03-2003 02:13									#273
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The facts are from British and Greek sources and out for all to see who can read newspapers with accounts of both Greek and Brit intelligence and acquintances of him.


I have yet to hear any argument from you.

	14-03-2003 02:15									#274
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yeah Flubber my cat still cries.


And also Arrian there is the "law" which is (suprise ) public.

And of course his "legitimate" arrest.

	14-03-2003 02:16									#275
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(GHM/IFEX) - On 9 March 2000, Salonica judge Maria Robbi banned a best-selling book that was condemned by the Greek Orthodox Church because of passages about the possible sexual longings of Jesus Christ. She justified the ban as a means to prevent ''outbreaks of violence'' after religious zealots threatened to take action against the author and bookstores selling the book.

The ban will remain in effect until 16 May, when a hearing is to be held on a suit to permanently halt the sale of ''M to the Power of N'', written by former communist parliament deputy Mimis Androulakis. The ban only applies to Salonica and adjacent prefectures, which are the judge's area of jurisdiction. The book will be available in the rest of Greece.

At the same time, additional criminal charges for "blasphemy" have been filed by the Salonica prosecutor's office against the book's author and publisher.

The book contains fictional dialogues between women whose names all begin with the letter M. The central theme is misogyny in various aspects of life, including religion. One chapter mentions a possible sexual dimension in the relationship between Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene, a prostitute who became a follower.

The suit was filed by fundamentalist Orthodox and Byzantine history teacher Marios Pilavakis, who argues that Christ's life cannot be open to fictional reinterpretation. He has been joined by a mix of ultra-nationalists and religious fanatics. At the 8 March court hearing, dozens of black-robed priests and monks stormed the court house and Robbi's chambers, chanting ''blasphemers'' and ''antichrists'' at Androulakis' defense lawyer, Thomas Trikoukis, who was beaten by some protesters. No arrests were made, though such attacks committed in a courtroom are considered especially serious by the Greek penal code.

The church and its leader, Archbishop Christodoulos, refused to comment on the decision. But Metropolitan Kallinikos, a spokesman for the church's ruling body, said Androulakis had no right ''to insult millions of our faithful with what he has said about the leader of our faith.'' Nearly all political parties, writers' and journalists' unions and scholars have condemned attacks and court decisions against Androulakis.


Background Information
As Associated Press reported, with one exception, Greek publishers said they could not recall any book being banned in Greece since the fall of the 1967 to 1974 military dictatorship. Two years ago, a court banned a Greek language dictionary and ordered the author to remove an insulting reference, the abusive use of the word "Bulgarian," to refer to residents of Salonica. That decision came after a Salonica city council member filed a complaint. But the Supreme Court overturned the ban, saying that although the word's derogatory definition was legally insulting, constitutional guarantees on free speech did not allow books to be banned or censored (see IFEX alerts of 29 January 1999, 29 July and 27 May 1998). Nevertheless, the dictionary's author, Professor Babiniotis, did introduce the court-mandated changes in the second printing.

http://www.ifex.org/alerts/view.html?id=6299

How is the current law in Greece which permits this book to be banned, different from the law in Britain?

	14-03-2003 02:17									#276
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You forgot to mention that these 2 bans were never passed and were overuled.

	14-03-2003 02:19									#277
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My argument is simple. In order to intelligently discuss the matter, we have to wait for the trial to start to find out what evidence the government has. We only know part of the story at this point.

Yet you have already made up your mind. You don't need facts, obviously. All you need is a *hint* of something out of the ordinary, and you react like a trained attack dog. Full of venom, short on facts.

Such premature judgement is indicative of bias, or even bigotry.

When the trial begins, much more information will become public, and it will be possible to debate this case properly. Hey, you could even be right that the Brits screwed up! But you can't possibly know that yet, so all you're doing is making assumptions.

-Arrian

	14-03-2003 02:19									#278
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 yeah Flubber my cat still cries.

Is your cat oppressed to?

	14-03-2003 02:22									#279
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quote: But the Supreme Court overturned the ban, saying that although the word's derogatory definition was legally insulting, constitutional guarantees on free speech did not allow books to be banned or censored.

Read my post next time Paiktis.

	14-03-2003 02:22									#280
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I dont have one but if i did it would be filled with tears




Arrian, are you slow?


You have
_the "law"
_the illegal arrest

_the announcements of the brit "police", and several sources


and then you have the charges.


I'm begining to wonder if you understand



the "trial" is based on the "law" and the "arrest"


clear yet?

	14-03-2003 02:26									#281
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 read above I'm not going to repeat any of it.

Is that a promise? Seems that all you do is parrot the
same unfounded accusations over and over again.

I find it highly amusing that you so rabidly hate the
British, They really earned it, gave you a country and
your freedom, saved you from the turks on a number
of occassions, and saved and taught you your cultural
heritage and history.

Their reward, hated and treachery, Terroristism in
Crete and Cyprus.

Seems they failed on the teaching you the cultural
heritage part, the Ancient Athenians would have regarded you as barbarians.

And they would have been right.

	14-03-2003 02:27									#282
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LOL

thank you Ozz for making it so easy.

	14-03-2003 02:29									#283
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here's your cookie for amusing me

quote: for example, I'm still waiting to hear: any conveincing argument for the arrest except: ozz ramblings: well they arrested them so they're right doh any conveincing argument about any other country having such a huge democratic deficit as britain does currently with its antiterrorist "law" except: well it protects us doh any conveincing argument about how can this NOT be a blatant crimilization of opinion excpet that: (thats good) Greece sucks. still waiting for arguments and facts? crap can only get you so far.

	14-03-2003 02:32									#284
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You have the dubious distinction of being the first OT poster to make my ignore list. Fairwell, Pattycakes.

:waves:

-Arrian

	14-03-2003 02:33									#285
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 But the Supreme Court overturned the ban, saying that although the word's derogatory definition was legally insulting, constitutional guarantees on free speech did not allow books to be banned or censored. Read my post next time Paiktis.

Right sorry I missed that.


Arrian you havent offered anything really so I'll not miss you that much bye.

	14-03-2003 02:37									#286
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian You have the dubious distinction of being the first OT poster to make my ignore list. -Arrian

For me as well

	14-03-2003 02:38									#287
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 here's your cookie for amusing me

What is your words worth? Stuck to that for 6 seconds.

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 read above I'm not going to repeat any of it.

Like shooting fish in a barrel. The fun pales quickly

Goodbye Paiktis22, you no longer amuse me,
now you just bore me.

	14-03-2003 02:38									#288
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****ing amazing. I wonder why aren't there any more full-time trolls in the OT. this seems like such a fertile ground.

	14-03-2003 02:39									#289
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If you cant beat them...leave? must be a new world thing from the looks of it.

Bye Ozzy, thanks for the laughs.

	14-03-2003 02:40									#290
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber For me as well

Me too.

	14-03-2003 02:43									#291
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Paiktis:

So how does the law differ between Britain and Greece?

	14-03-2003 02:47									#292
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No one can leave until his cat stops crying

	14-03-2003 02:48									#293
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Paiktis: So how does the law differ between Britain and Greece?

How is it similar?

The Constitution guarantees that all books are free to be published and read.

Spray, it's overwhelmed with tears and I dont know what to do.

	14-03-2003 02:51									#294
	Inflate your Upload Space

You're not free to planespot though, are you paiktis?

	14-03-2003 02:52									#295
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You can trainspot though!

	14-03-2003 02:59									#296
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quote: The Constitution guarantees that all books are free to be published and read.

First off, the Brits don't have a constitution, so I don't know how one would ban a book in the UK.

Any ideas from the UK posters?

	14-03-2003 03:04									#297
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BTW I could be wrong and that student could be involved.

That seal is what really bugs me.

Proclamations were freely published anyway, so it is important to know wether this was an original (same goes for the seal.

But all my senses and the known facts "scream" that this guy is an impressionable youngster and nothing more.

And of course there remains the "law" which is godamn fascist.

	24-04-2003 19:49									#298
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It seems paiktis was right.

On April 8 this story ran on BBC

quote: Greek cleared over terror charges A Greek national has been cleared of terrorism charges because of lack of evidence against him. Charalambos Dousemetzis, 25, a former student at Northumbria University in Newcastle, had his case discontinued when he appeared before magistrates in Bedlington, Northumberland. Gerard Tompkinson, defending, told the court: "He was arrested on 25 February. "The Crown Prosecution Service have taken the view that Mr Dousemetzis has espoused from the start, that there was no evidence in relation to these charges." Mr Dousemetzis, who has lived in Britain for eight years, was accused of possessing articles which could be used in connection with the instigation, preparation or commission of an action of terrorism. The court heard that one charge related to the possession of two ink stamps and a document, while the other charge related to the possession of a document. Mr Dousemetzis was first arrested in February at an address in the Heaton area of Newcastle. He did not wish to speak after the short hearing. The case sparked complaints from the Greek Government when Mr Dousemetzis first appeared in court. Officials protested they had not been informed by the UK Government of his arrest.

	24-04-2003 19:52									#299
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quote: Originally posted by MacTBone It seems paiktis was right.

If he was right, why is the man on the streets and not in irons? After all the UK is such a fascist state and all.

	24-04-2003 19:56									#300
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I meant he was right in that there wasn't sufficient evidence. If I understand correctly the juge released him because there wasn't enough evidence for a trial.

He was wrong with his facist statements though. At least, I can't see how he would be able to justify them now...