13-03-2003 13:21									#31
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Hardly. Given that you only control those areas of Sheepsta that are not under occupation by Alecrast, Bulbagarden, or peacekeeping troops, any attempt to manipulate these figures to prove 'genocide' is laughable, especially given that, as we have said, we can see everything going on in Sheepsta and there has been no genocide whatsoever, except in certain areas wher eit was committed by the troops of Cardinal Ew - who was overthrown and executed in the invasion.

	13-03-2003 13:26									#32
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Ahhh, yes Centralis beakon of truth and enlightment, the know all. The New Sheepstan government may only hold sway in one corner of the island, but our agents know what is happening. Truth is for all your fancy gizzmos and techniques, nothing beats good old fashinoned ground agents.

I once again call upon all nations to leave the USRS.

	13-03-2003 13:31									#33
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Except, perhaps, the truth. As we have already told you, we have peacekeeping troops on the gorund, and they are accompanied by the media almost everywhere they go. Ever since you made your allegations, they have been lookign for evidence... and they have found nothing. They have found that the people who you claim are dead are still very much alive and somewhat surprised that you would claim they are not.

And as to leaving - we will not do so, nor will we support any other nation doing so, until New Sheepsta can improve it's own dismal human rights record.

	13-03-2003 13:42									#34
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Ha! The New Sheepstan government is New. It is tryting to stabalise itself and regain Sheepsta island. It is socialist, it is egalitarian and last of all it will be free.

As for your peackeepers, surprised they ahven;t come accross the mass graves. The damge was already done. Truth is Alecrast and whoever else wanted more land for their growing populations. When they came to Sheepsta they found it inhabbited so the decided to kill a few. Sheepstans have united now, and Centralis forever backer of Alecratsian terrorism and mis- deeds will not acknowledge it and plan to keep Sheepsta as a nation down in the dirt

	13-03-2003 13:50									#35
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quote: Ha! The New Sheepstan government is New. It is tryting to stabalise itself and regain Sheepsta island. It is socialist, it is egalitarian and last of all it will be free.

Then perhaps you would care to explain why you ahve been rated by all outside observers as a "Psychotic Dictatorship", with civil rights being "Unheard Of", political freedoms being "Rare", and the police force being "all-pervasive".

quote: As for your peackeepers, surprised they ahven;t come accross the mass graves. The damge was already done.

Perhaps you can then explain to our census-takers why they found the population level to be consistent with expectations, which did not include an attemtp at genocide?

quote: Sheepstans have united now, and Centralis forever backer of Alecratsian terrorism and mis- deeds will not acknowledge it and plan to keep Sheepsta as a nation down in the dirt

Interesting that you would complain about 'terrorism' being committed against you when you yourselves are busy terrorising the inhabitants of the areas you occupy, and when your nation has been not the recipient, but the source of a great deal of terrorism in our country, which left hundeds of thousands of our own citizens dead during the civil war.

	13-03-2003 14:19									#36
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The honorable delgation of Centralis has not known the hell we have gone through these past two and a half years.

http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_doc/query/83?uf=uia_nFqZon

The cladestine round up of Sheepstan citzens in Northern town by Alecratsian military

http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_doc/query/242?uf=uia_nFqZon

Centralis soldiers look on as Alecrastian soldiers force labour from Sheepstan citizens

http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_doc/query/383?uf=uia_nFqZon

Alecrastian freighter shipping Sheepstan citizens off the Alecrast. No trace of them ever found again.

http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_doc/query/6?uf=uia_nFqZon

Sheepstans at the killing fields south of Lambston after the Alecrastian killing squads otherwise known as Randers left.

http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_doc/query/27?uf=uia_nFqZon

Sheepstans being forced to scrub the streets of Lambston by Alecrastian soldiers.

http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_doc/query/424?uf=uia_nFqZon

Sheepstans are rounded up in St. Fleece to be deported to the extermination camps in Alecrast and Northern Sheepsta.

http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_doc/query/673?uf=uia_nFqZon

Sheepstans at forced labour stacking Alecrastian artillery munitions.

As you can see we have evidence of the Alecrestian atrocities. We have more if you need it.

	13-03-2003 14:22									#37
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Interesting, is it not, that Alecrast is being blamed for alledged (and unsubstantiated) events supposedly having occured in the southern Sheepsta territories, the Bulbagarden protectorate. I think people that perhaps the explanation for this is far more simple. The remaining followers of the now deceased Cardinal Ew have decided to get together in one big group so that we might more easily be rid of them.

	13-03-2003 14:41									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic Interesting, is it not, that Alecrast is being blamed for alledged (and unsubstantiated) events supposedly having occured in the southern Sheepsta territories, the Bulbagarden protectorate. I think people that perhaps the explanation for this is far more simple. The remaining followers of the now deceased Cardinal Ew have decided to get together in one big group so that we might more easily be rid of them.

If that doesn;t sound like genocidal tendicies what does?

I call upon Alecrast, Bulbagarden and any other nation occupying parts of the homeland of the remnant of the Sheepstan people to withdraw from Sheepsta's territory or face retrubution from our true allies.

	13-03-2003 14:46									#39
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quote: The honorable delgation of Centralis has not known the hell we have gone through these past two and a half years. http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_do...3?uf=uia_nFqZon The cladestine round up of Sheepstan citzens in Northern town by Alecratsian military http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_do...2?uf=uia_nFqZon Centralis soldiers look on as Alecrastian soldiers force labour from Sheepstan citizens http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_do...3?uf=uia_nFqZon Alecrastian freighter shipping Sheepstan citizens off the Alecrast. No trace of them ever found again. http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_do...6?uf=uia_nFqZon Sheepstans at the killing fields south of Lambston after the Alecrastian killing squads otherwise known as Randers left. http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_do...7?uf=uia_nFqZon Sheepstans being forced to scrub the streets of Lambston by Alecrastian soldiers. http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_do...4?uf=uia_nFqZon Sheepstans are rounded up in St. Fleece to be deported to the extermination camps in Alecrast and Northern Sheepsta. http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_do...3?uf=uia_nFqZon Sheepstans at forced labour stacking Alecrastian artillery munitions. As you can see we have evidence of the Alecrestian atrocities. We have more if you need it.

This caricature of evidence would be amusing were it not so offensive to peoples who have been truly persecuted. Not a signle one of those pictures originates from the areas in which troops from Alecrast and Bulbagarden operate. All of them depict events taking place either during the Second World War or in the rareas controlled by the rebels who were overthrown by the Alecrastian invasion. Such propaganda may work on your own people when you deny them any other sources of information, but they do not fool people who actually have information sources other than you.

And, of course, secure in your confidence that you can fool anyoen you choose, you have compeltely forgotten that the Alecrastian annexation did not take place until a few months ago. The true hell that Sheepsta has been enduring was the bloody reign of the forces of Cardinal Ew.

quote: If that doesn;t sound like genocidal tendicies what does? I call upon Alecrast, Bulbagarden and any other nation occupying parts of the homeland of the remnant of the Sheepstan people to withdraw from Sheepsta's territory or face retrubution from our true allies.

We will not abandon the people of Sheepsta to such a tryanny as yourselves. If you can improve your practises and establish a genuine claim to respresent the people of Sheepsta, we may reconsider, but until then, you ar eno mroe than a band of murderers and thugs and you will be treated accordingly.

	13-03-2003 14:51									#40
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Ha. The Chairman allows free elections and everything in the like. You are just suspicious like the United Nations cause unlike your nation we are not pot-heads.

	13-03-2003 14:54									#41
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occ: Seriously I don't know why the two of you are so opposed to me taking back my OWN nation. After all I have to make sugegstions to where all the extra people went to.

	13-03-2003 14:56									#42
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False. Not a single election has been held at any time in your history, and your brutal repression of dissidents would make them pointless exercises in any case. Again: such crude and blatantly false propaganda may work on your own people (altohugh this does not say mcuh for their intelligence), but it does not work on people who have access to real information.

OOC: Because:

1) You came back in and started accusing Alecrast, for no reason whatsoever, of massacring millions of people;

2) In RP terms, nobody in their right midn would want to withdraw from a country and hand it over to a Psychotic Dictatorship.

	13-03-2003 15:00									#43
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occ: Then you can go crew yourself. Hey next time your in hospital and Centralis is lost, don;t expect me to get all sympathetic.


The United Socialist Republics of New Sheepsta will begin the militray liberation of the remanants of the Sheepstan people if the occupiers do not leave Sheepsta in 3 days RL. Any whom wish to help the New Sheepstan government take their rightful place in the league of nations is welcome to do so.

occ: This is not a request this is telling you that if you don;t piss off out of my country I will try everything in my power to **** you up. In an ideal world someone would of asked me before doing this right?

	13-03-2003 15:09									#44
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quote: occ: Then you can go crew yourself. Hey next time your in hospital and Centralis is lost, don;t expect me to get all sympathetic.

Here we see another quality post from Sheep. I never asked you to be sympathetic in such a case in the first place, and whether you would be or not has no relevance whatsoever to the reasons I just gave. I really wouldn't have cared if you had come in and started up your new country if nothing had happened, but you'd have to be really dense to expect us to just pack up and go away in RP terms.

quote: occ: This is not a request this is telling you that if you don;t piss off out of my country I will try everything in my power to **** you up. In an ideal world someone would of asked me before doing this right?

You weren't here to be asked.

/OOC

quote: The United Socialist Republics of New Sheepsta will begin the militray liberation of the remanants of the Sheepstan people if the occupiers do not leave Sheepsta in 3 days RL. Any whom wish to help the New Sheepstan government take their rightful place in the league of nations is welcome to do so.

Centralis will not bow to the demands of a fascist miltiary dictatorship in it's quest to seize the rest of the island. So-called 'New Sheepsta' has no legitimacy whatsoever and will not have any until it becomes a democracy. Period. Once this is achieved, we really couldn't care elss what you choose to do, but we will not simply stand by and let you impose your tyranny on the rest of the island.

	13-03-2003 16:21									#45
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O.O.C. Sheep, if you'd noticed my earlier posts, Alecrast and Bulbagarden were quite willing to hand over the land if the people of Sheepsta later felt that they no longer needed our help. If you'd come back and established a free democratic society in the spirit of your U.S.S., then control would've been freely handed over, even if you changed later. However, instead you've come back like your old self.

	13-03-2003 16:40									#46
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OOC: That's precisely it. I really don't have anything against Sheep taking back his old nation, but the way he tried to do it made it pretty much impossible.

	13-03-2003 17:57									#47
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USRS, we are glad that that SHeepsta has its own government again. We would like to see that your former lands are handed back to you, but we would like to see somethings take place first.

1.) Please stop with the threats and such. We do not want to start a devastating war over this matter.
2.) Agree to hold elections in all of sheepsta, occupied and unoccupied.

As far as the claims of genicide go, we have seen no eveidence of that, but you must remember there was a long period of total anarchy, and millions most likely died or fled the country. But we will look into this matter to see if there was gencide commited.

We are most certain we can come to an agreeable solution to this problem if we can all sit down and claim down.

ooc:
Come on guys dont get mad at each other. Sheep you will get your nation back, just be carefull of what you say, you dont want to tick off the wrong countries.

	13-03-2003 20:18									#48
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We agree 100% with the position of the United States of Jackson.

Saluti

	14-03-2003 10:35									#49
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Centralis also agrees with the position of the USJ. W ehave no objection in principle to Sheepsta having it's independance restored, but we have very strong objections to it being restored in such a manner as to impose yet another brutal tyranny on Sheepsta.

	14-03-2003 10:57									#50
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What brutal tyranny. The political frredoms and the economic freedoms are those of the entire island. Majority under Alecrastian control.

We call upon the people of Sheepsta to overthrow their oppressors. The New Sheepsta will be egalitarian and socialist. Centralis obviously doesn;t know the meaning of equal.

	14-03-2003 11:01									#51
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quote: What brutal tyranny. The political frredoms and the economic freedoms are those of the entire island. Majority under Alecrastian control.

Here we see anohte rprime xample of blatant Sheepstan lying. The total Sheepstan population is over 40 million, of which only 5 million live under the control of 'New Sheepsta'.

quote: We call upon the people of Sheepsta to overthrow their oppressors. The New Sheepsta will be egalitarian and socialist. Centralis obviously doesn;t know the meaning of equal.

We do, as a matter of fact, and we know damn well that it does nto involve having the police come around to torture you to death in front of your family for complaining about the price of bread, or being summarily executed for walking too slowly.

	14-03-2003 11:02									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Sheep What brutal tyranny. The political frredoms and the economic freedoms are those of the entire island. Majority under Alecrastian control.

No, they're the UN's rating of the civil, economic and political freedoms of your little part of the island. And as a matter of fact, the Bulbagarden zone of control is greater in size than the Alecrast zone. Indeed, "Fort Jesus", where you are now, lies in the Bulbagarden zones. I wonder if they'll be sending any of their Manma, Aqua or Rocket divisions after you.....

	14-03-2003 11:16									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic No, they're the UN's rating of the civil, economic and political freedoms of your little part of the island. And as a matter of fact, the Bulbagarden zone of control is greater in size than the Alecrast zone. Indeed, "Fort Jesus", where you are now, lies in the Bulbagarden zones. I wonder if they'll be sending any of their Manma, Aqua or Rocket divisions after you.....

Indeed more evidence of the ALecrastian and Bulbagarden attempts to oppress the rights of the Sheepstan people. All the Centralis people and the other OSDN members can say is lets hold a vote!

	14-03-2003 11:28									#54
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So you have some kind of objection to the people themselves deciding what they want? I suppose that's to be expected, from you at least.

	14-03-2003 11:49									#55
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Not at all I have objection to Alecrast and Bulbagarden sources pretending to hold votes for citizens that have been killed by their forces.

Centralis ask your generals, they know of these atrocities.

Sheepsta is to be whole once more.

	14-03-2003 11:52									#56
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*SIGH* You're worse than the Holocaust deniers; you're fabricating a Holocaust. I have access to every file we have on Sheepsta, including logs of all our communications and observations and everything we've collected while trying to investigate your claims - and, as I have said befor,e there is no evidence that anybody has committed any such atrocities in regions under the control of Alecrast and Bulbagarden. The only massacres committed anywhere in Sheepsta have been committed by the forces deposed by the invasion.

	14-03-2003 12:16									#57
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Yes okay then! You talk about Holocaust deniers, look in the mirror.

Until you recongnise this the New Sheepstan government cuts all communicationc to Centralis, and will work for the liberation of Sheepstan lands still under foreign occupation. The truth is this is an illegal occupation and unles the Apolyton community does not put an end to it we shall be forced to act.

	14-03-2003 12:24									#58
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quote: Yes okay then! You talk about Holocaust deniers, look in the mirror.

I look in the mirror, and I see a person who, unlike you, actually looks at the evidence and comes to conclusions based on it, rather than on some fantasy that demands that anyone who disagrees with me be a genocidal monster.

quote: Until you recongnise this the New Sheepstan government cuts all communicationc to Centralis, and will work for the liberation of Sheepstan lands still under foreign occupation. The truth is this is an illegal occupation and unles the Apolyton community does not put an end to it we shall be forced to act.

The occupation was ratified by the people of Sheepsta, whatever your propaganda ministry may claim, and Alecrast has repeatedly stated that it is prepared to hold a second vote - it is you who demands that the people be denied this. Given your statements and actions, you are now officially considered a terrorist organization and will be treated as such until you cease and desist in your attempts to illegally seize power in Sheepsta. We are now deploying an additional 1.5 million troops into Sheepsta to defend against your aggression, and we encourage other nations to increase their own contingents here as well.

	14-03-2003 12:31									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Sheep Indeed more evidence of the ALecrastian and Bulbagarden attempts to oppress the rights of the Sheepstan people. All the Centralis people and the other OSDN members can say is lets hold a vote!

More like rid South Sheepsta of people already declared as traitors by the government of the United States of Sheepsta before it dissolved. I don't know how many of those 5 million are actually your followers, and how many are those civilians who you've taken it upon yourselves to take over the rule off illegitimatly, but Bulbagarden is well within the mandate the citizens of Sheepsta gave it when it passed the referendum making it an Alecrast (North) and Bulbagarden (South) protectorate.

	14-03-2003 12:52									#60
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HA this is where you are wrong. The United States of Sheepsta was indeed dissolved, but not on its own free will. Alecrast forced it to dissolve and to capture its territory.

We the United Socialist States of New Sheepta shall have our vengence for the attrocities committed by the occupiers. The people of Sheepsta have been defiled and humiliated. Lastly the people of Sheepsta saw no vote.