02-04-2003 19:47									#151
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occ: Anarchic I couldn;t really care who you think you are in SMACDG, However I am not giving in, ever.


The truth is there has never been any independent inspectors. There has been no New Sheepstan WOMD, infact they were probably used by Alecrast to wipe out dissedents in the occupied territroies.

True I did not post. However I would not of done the same. The fact is Sheepsta is mine. Without Sheep it wouldn;t even be Sheepsta. Give me a break!

	02-04-2003 20:42									#152
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To: Bulbagarden
From: Wine

If you had troubles with the economy then we wonder why you decided to take on such a difficult and expensive work in South Sheepsta.
However the "powerhouse" economy of the Kingdom of Wine may come to your help by sending huminatarian aids to the poor people of South Sheepsta, and by planting a few Humanitarian centers.
We hope you will allow that.

Saluti

	03-04-2003 02:25									#153
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To Wine:
From New Sheepsta

There is no such thing as South and North Sheepsta, only Sheepsta. We shall contiue to strive until reality matches truth.

	03-04-2003 13:43									#154
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All replies in this OOC

quote: Originally posted by Drogue Who'se inspectors? Do we have independant corroberation of this? Under whose authority did they go in?

They've been going in over the past few pages. I think Centralis, Karakas, Jackson and Wine all sent people. And we've also got the UN descriptions of the nations on Nationstates. Of those, only Wine has voiced any concerns, and as you can see, they're being addressed.

quote: Originally posted by Drogue Again, I ask for evidence. Who says they have or are using WoMD? Isn't this godmodding, since you are saying what someone else has done/is doing?

I suppose it is godmodding in a fashion. However, I see it as trying to restore the status quo that Sheep here is trying to upset with his godmodding.

quote: Originally posted by Drogue Surely you can see that, with the differing opinions regarding this act, that this is not the case. This is anything but cut and dry.

Perhaps, perhaps not. I think it's safe to say however that even if the region does decide that Alecrast and Bulbagarden had no authority to move in, that Sheep doesn't have any authority either.

quote: Originally posted by Drogue Sionce this is RPing, I don't think there is ecvidence as such. However, it is contradicted by your evidence, which Sheep may dispute.

While I was saying that RP-wise, OOC I can say that I'm basically pointing out that his claims aren't even close to being plausible given the UN descriptions of the nations on Nationstates.

quote: Originally posted by Drogue That is true. However: May be disputable. Moreover, even if he did surrender it, it then falls under international duristiction, and protectorship, rather than the control on any particular nation. He could claim a right to it, although as you said, he may have forfeited that, but whether you have a right to it is another issue.

Agreed, and we'll see what the courts decide on that, and both my nations will go with whatever the court decides, however I feel confident that whatever happens, the ruling will be that Sheep has forfeited his rights to it (Either by that absence, or by the fact that him declaring war on me in that new thread of his is likely to piss off the nations of the region).

quote: Originally posted by Drogue I think he's begining to find out

Heh. Indeed.

	03-04-2003 13:49									#155
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Again, all replies OOC.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep occ: Anarchic I couldn;t really care who you think you are in SMACDG, However I am not giving in, ever.

Quite a lot of guts for someone who doesn't do much more than whinge.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep The truth is there has never been any independent inspectors. There has been no New Sheepstan WOMD, infact they were probably used by Alecrast to wipe out dissedents in the occupied territroies.

You're ignoring both the established facts from earlier in the thread, and ignoring that your claims of Alecrast/Bulbagarden aren't even close to being plausible.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep True I did not post. However I would not of done the same. The fact is Sheepsta is mine. Without Sheep it wouldn;t even be Sheepsta. Give me a break!

Whinge whinge, whine whine. So you wouldn't have done what I did? So what? How does that make any difference.
Big Red Rubber Stamp Attack! - "Appeal to emotion"

Here's something from the nationstates FAQ for you.

If you don't log your nation in, it will be deleted automatically in 21 days.

You didn't log in for 21 days, and your nation got deleted. I waited a further 7 days to do what I did. All during this time, you were making many posts in other forums on Apolyton. As far as I, and many others, are concerned, you abandoned your nation, and your right to it. It became part of the region, usable by anyone for plausible RPGing. And so I continued on the RPGing left off with your unfinished civil war.

	03-04-2003 13:51									#156
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quote: Originally posted by Giovanni Wine To: Bulbagarden From: Wine If you had troubles with the economy then we wonder why you decided to take on such a difficult and expensive work in South Sheepsta. However the "powerhouse" economy of the Kingdom of Wine may come to your help by sending huminatarian aids to the poor people of South Sheepsta, and by planting a few Humanitarian centers. We hope you will allow that. Saluti

At the time we took on this work, we were fine. However, recent times have seen an economic slump in both Bulbagarden and the whole BMGf region, which is why we haven't been able to make the progress we would've liked. Any help you could send us would be welcomed most thankfully by both Bulbagarden and the people of the Protectorate of South Sheepsta.

	03-04-2003 13:58									#157
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Should any further funding to social programs in North or South Sheepsta be required, Centralis is prepared to send as much as necessary.

	03-04-2003 14:24									#158
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That would be most appreciated. While we discuss where that aid might best be directed, it would be appreciated if your country, and others, might be to send inspectors and media reporters. Alecrast and Bulbagarden troops are well equiped to deal with the minimal threat offered by "New Sheepsta" now that they've come out and attacked us, we would appreciate it if you could help us demonstrate to the region just what these people are about and doing, and what we have done.

	03-04-2003 14:27									#159
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Well, reporters from Centralis National Television are already there in force, but the outbreak of open war will very likely draw reporters from other media outlets like moths to a flame. We are now also sending additional inspectors, per your request, and are willing to send more troops to help defend against the 'New Sheepstan' paramilitaries if the local governments desire.

	03-04-2003 14:44									#160
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After watching the Lord-Captain Archaic's latest address, Praetor Shinzon offers Alecrast the use of Dakmoristani ports and airfields in putting down the insurgency of New Sheepsta.



OOC: Hey, would it be easier if there were only one thread, a "message center" like they used to have at CFC?

	03-04-2003 15:00									#161
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I don't doubt the local governments of North and South Sheepsta will make such a request shortly. While we are moving in troops to support, it's their troops that are taking the brunt of the fighting at the moment, and I can certainly understand how they'd feel when they've only just gone through a Civil War.


While that is appreciated Dakmoristan, we're able to launch most of our craft directly from Alecrast to Sheepsta. Bulbagarden however may contact you about that offer. You'd be a much closer base of operations for their air force than the Bulbagarden mainland would be.

O.O.C. It probably would be a lot easier with just one thread, yes. I don't see any chance of that now though. Sheep doesn't exactly play by the rules to begin with.

	03-04-2003 15:02									#162
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OOC: Besides, if we wound up with several crises occuring side by side, it might get a bit hard to keep track of what was happening where.

	03-04-2003 20:27									#163
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To: New Sheepsta
From: Wine

For as much as we agree that Sheepsta should be united once again, you have no rights in declaring war against your own people, how can you pretend to rapresent the whole of Sheepsta island, as you claim, while you are at war with your brothers and sisters.
All Wine really cares about is the welldoing of the Sheepstan people, we frankly don't really care if they are under one sheepsta or the other sheepsta, it is the people we care about, not the country.
I suggest you recall your troops and allow diplomatic talks once again.

Saluti

	03-04-2003 20:54									#164
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No-one seems to play by the rules. Archaic: you posted that they use WMDs, or would if they had them, which is presuming a lot, since you don't know if Sheep would. You have said that there have been inspectors from the main UN body, something that I was unaware of, and to my knowledge, no judge, not the UN delegate, has authorised such an expedition. You have stated that they are corrupt and you are not.

While I agree that Sheep has been at least as bad as you, and I am not condoning their actions, this is all stuff that you have no or little right to say, since you do not know about their nation. I don't have a problem with it, but I do take issue with you accusing Sheep of breaking the rules, while you yourself do similar things. Would someone like to write a set of RP rules, possibly based on NES ones, so that we all can know what is acceptable and what is not, since I am a little confused as to the accusations being thrown around.

Also, I am rather surprised that many judicial candidates seem willing to rule before the case has started, and before any evidence has been presented.

	03-04-2003 21:06									#165
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Akiria echos wines concerned for the people of Sheepsta. However, are they at war with North/South Sheepsta, or are they at war with Alecrast and Bulbagarden? Though we would like them to withdraw anyway, and take this to the court for a legitimate solution (and the only one other than total annihalation for themselves ) if they are killing Sheepstans, it significantly weakens their case in my eyes. It is hard to claim to unite the countries when you are killing their people.

	03-04-2003 22:47									#166
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To: Akiria
From: Wine

Off course the New Sheepstans are not killing other sheepstans or civilians on purpouse, or anyway we have no news about that or reason to believe that, but civilian casualities are the collateral damages of every war unfortunatly.
We are sure that New Sheepsta will understand that and withdraw the declaration of war.

Saluti

	03-04-2003 23:18									#167
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I would like to see graphic details of this on a map, to understand it better. However, it may be they're not attacking any civilian areas, it may not.

	04-04-2003 02:08									#168
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue No-one seems to play by the rules. Archaic: you posted that they use WMDs, or would if they had them, which is presuming a lot, since you don't know if Sheep would. You have said that there have been inspectors from the main UN body, something that I was unaware of, and to my knowledge, no judge, not the UN delegate, has authorised such an expedition. You have stated that they are corrupt and you are not.

Like I said before, about the "inspectors from the main UN body", I regard the descriptions of our nations on the nationstates site as being those. Everything else I've said I've either based off those descriptions, or based off the established history of the region, something which these often megalomaniac characters Sheep likes to create often try to re-write. I wouldn't say these things if they weren't plausible.

	04-04-2003 02:24									#169
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Ahh, sorry, I presumed you meant that inspetors from the UN had entered North and South Sheepsta about the current situation, and had found WMDs etc. My bad.

	04-04-2003 03:45									#170
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No worries. I should've explained myself better.

	04-04-2003 04:55									#171
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The New Sheepstan government would like to remin people that we are not at war with the Sheepstan people. We are the Sheepstan people, and represent them, and their struggle for independence and reunification. We are at war with Alecrast, Bulbgarden and their Sheepstan lackeys that control the North and South Sheepstan occupation regiemes.

While we would dearly love to withdraw our decleration of war, we cannot allow foreigners to decide the fate of the Sheepstan people. Trusting that before was to the detrement of Sheepsta, and the destruction of the USS by Alecrast.

We have new evidence in Alecrastian interference causing the dissolution of the USS government, that violates the OSDN treaty which both nations were apart of.

We can not allow this occupation of our homes and nation to be discussed in a committee while Sheepstan citizens are being killed by Alecrastian WOMD and being improvrished by Alecrastian captalism.

We shall fight for our freedom, because no-one else seems to care about the fact that OUR nation has been OCCUPIED, DIVIDED AND EXPLOITED.

	04-04-2003 07:49									#172
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This from the pages of the UN

quote: The Commonwealth of Alecrast is a enormous, socially progressive nation, notable for its compulsory vegetarianism. Its hard-nosed, hard-working, intelligent population of 438 million are effectively ruled by a group of massive corporations, who run for political office and provide their well-off citizens with world-class goods and services. Their poorer citizens, however, are mostly starving to death while being urged to go out and get real jobs. The populace has reasonably extensive civil rights, although these are mostly aimed at allowing them to buy whatever they like. There is no government in the normal sense the word; however, a small group of community-minded, pro-business individuals juggles the competing demands of Defence, Law & Order, and Education. Income tax is unheard of. A powerhouse of a private sector is led by the Information Technology industry, followed by Gambling and Book Publishing. College students make ends meet by selling their kidneys, scientists regularly clone human beings for research purposes, euthanasia is legal, and bicyclists are banned from major roads. Crime is totally unknown, thanks to the all-pervasive police force and progressive social policies in education and welfare. Alecrast's national animal is the Furry, which teeters on the brink of extinction due to widespread deforestation, and its currency is the En.

Is it any wonder why the people of Sheepsta who value egalitariansim and socalism above all else wish to gain freedom from this regime.

	04-04-2003 07:54									#173
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This just in

South Sheepsta

The Disputed Territories of South Sheepsta is a very large, economically powerful nation, remarkable for its barren, inhospitable landscape. Its hard-nosed, hard-working, intelligent population of 56 million are effectively ruled by a group of massive corporations, who run for political office and provide their well-off citizens with world-class goods and services. Their poorer citizens, however, are mostly starving to death while being urged to go out and get real jobs. The populace has reasonably extensive civil rights, although these are mostly aimed at allowing them to buy whatever they like.

The small, pro-business government juggles the competing demands of Education, Commerce, and Law & Order. Citizens pay a flat income tax of 2%. A powerhouse of a private sector is led by the Beef-Based Agriculture, Automobile Manufacturing, and Uranium Mining industries.

A well-funded social safety net protects the unfortunate, corporations donate huge sums of money to favored politicians, the mining industry is making inroads into environmentally sensitive areas, and scientists regularly clone human beings for research purposes. Crime is moderate. South Sheepsta's national animal is the sheep, which teeters on the brink of extinction due to widespread deforestation, and its currency is the golden bulba.

North Sheepsta
The Disputed Territories of North Sheepsta is a very large, socially progressive nation, renowned for its barren, inhospitable landscape. Its hard-nosed, hard-working population of 56 million are either ruled by a small, efficient government or a conglomerate of multinational corporations; it's difficult to tell which.

The small, pro-business government juggles the competing demands of Education, Commerce, and Social Welfare. Citizens pay a flat income tax of 1%. A powerhouse of a private sector is led by the Gambling industry, followed by Uranium Mining and Soda Sales.

College students make ends meet by selling their kidneys, employers may fire workers without giving any reason, nudity is frowned upon, and bicyclists are banned from major roads. Crime is relatively low. North Sheepsta's national animal is the sheep, which teeters on the brink of extinction due to widespread deforestation, and its currency is the en.

Where does that Uranuim go, to Alecrast. What is used for Alecrastian Nukes. Alecrast wishes only to make Sheepsta into its nuke facotry. To expand its corporte intrests. We will not allow this to happen. We strike at the heart of these corrupt regimes and we shall reunify Sheepsta under the Red Banner.

	04-04-2003 07:55									#174
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This is 112 million Sheepstans that live under a captalist regime from overseas. New Sheepsta will right this wrong with or without the world communities help.

	04-04-2003 08:43									#175
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Urborg, 1:34 PM

While leaving the Senate House after a lunchtime meeting with his advisors, Praetor Shinzon's motorcade was fired on by a man with a high-powered sniper rifle.

The gunman, whose name has not been released, is said to have recently travelled to Sheepsta and was carrying counterfeit Karakasian identity documents.

The Praetor and his entourage were uninjured. Urborg police are investigating this lapse in Dakmoristan's generally high-security arrangements.

The attack comes as the Defense Department confirmed that Bulbagardenese aircraft will be permitted to use military airfields near Mysidia and Kagorst as staging points for attacks on New Sheepsta.

A spokesman said that 25 Bulbagarden Air Force command-and-control officers arrived in Dakmoristan overnight, with as many as 200 additional communications, intelligence, and support personnel likely to arrive soon.

Meanwhile, the Karakasian military has declined to comment on a recently released photograph that seems to show members of its elite Omega Force unit posing with Alecrastian Rangers.

A Sheepstan-style building is visible in the background of the photo. Several of the soldiers are flashing the "victory" sign to the camera and displaying Alecrastian and Karakasian flags. One of the Karakasians is holding a handkerchief embroidered with the Greek letter omega, leading to the speculation that the men pictured are members of the Omega Force battalion.

The Karakasian government has refused to confirm or deny that special forces have been deployed to Sheepsta.

	04-04-2003 09:42									#176
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The people that follow EW Bastard have killed Jerry Nubriyah, son of the Secretay of the NEw Sheepstan regime. We ask the wider world to assist us against this terrorism, that Alecrast privatley supports.

	04-04-2003 12:14									#177
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And just to present the full picture of UN reports regarding the situation in Sheepsta:

quote: Spotlight on: The United Socialist States of New Sheepsta "Sheepsta shall be reunited!" UN Category: Psychotic Dictatorship Civil Rights: Few Economy: Reasonable Political Freedoms: Rare Location: Apolyton The United Socialist States of New Sheepsta is a very large, safe nation, notable for its compulsory military service. Its compassionate, cynical population of 56 million are ruled without fear or favor by a psychotic dictator, who outlaws just about everything and refers to the populace as "my little playthings." It is difficult to tell where the omnipresent, corrupt government stops and the rest of society begins, but it juggles the competing demands of Defence, Law & Order, and Social Welfare. The average income tax rate is 59%. Private enterprise is illegal, but for those in the know there is a slick and highly efficient black market in Trout Farming. Cars are banned, nudity is frowned upon, gambling is outlawed, and political parties are banned from advertising and receiving private donations. Crime -- especially youth-related -- is totally unknown, thanks to the all-pervasive police force and progressive social policies in education and welfare. New Sheepsta's national animal is the sheep, which frolics freely in the nation's many lush forests, and its currency is the fleece.

Note, in particular, the bolded areas. Does such a nation have any right at all to damn others for their alleged crimes, ro indeed to be trusted?

	04-04-2003 12:15									#178
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EDIT: Cross post removed. Centralis got to it first. ^^;

EDIT 2:
Just thought I'd highlight something myself.

quote: It is difficult to tell where the omnipresent, corrupt government stops and the rest of society begins, but it juggles the competing demands of Defence, Law & Order, and Social Welfare. The average income tax rate is 59%. Private enterprise is illegal, but for those in the know there is a slick and highly efficient black market in Trout Farming.

	04-04-2003 12:20									#179
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quote: Originally posted by Sheep Where does that Uranuim go, to Alecrast. What is used for Alecrastian Nukes. Alecrast wishes only to make Sheepsta into its nuke facotry. To expand its corporte intrests. We will not allow this to happen. We strike at the heart of these corrupt regimes and we shall reunify Sheepsta under the Red Banner.

Someone doesn't seem to understand just how Nukes are made.

The Uranium is used by Sheepsta in its own Nuclear Power Plants, as well as being sold around the region for that exact same use to other nations which
a) Already possess the capacity to produce nuclear weapons from the Plutonium Byproducts.
&
b) Have proven themselves to be sane and stable enough that they would never use such weapons unless attacked by same.

And let's not forget, the controlling interest in Nukes4U (The region's primary miner of Uranium, and owner of the majority of privately owned Nuclear Power Plants in Apolyton) is held by a North Sheepstan.

	04-04-2003 12:29									#180
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quote: Originally posted by Sheep The people that follow EW Bastard have killed Jerry Nubriyah, son of the Secretay of the NEw Sheepstan regime. We ask the wider world to assist us against this terrorism, that Alecrast privatley supports.

No, actually it was an Alecrast Yokuza Sniper. And he probably wouldn't have been a target if he wasn't commanding one of your military units on the front lines.