25-03-2003 05:20									#31
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they have extra horses. I think that is true. we could really use them

	25-03-2003 07:35									#32
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MrWhereItsAt from RP made a very interesting post on the main forum thread (Vox public announcment). Here is the excerpt:

quote: Perhaps Vox could show its dedication to continued peace and cooperation by withdrawing? Such a gesture will be greatly appreciated by all Bob civs right now and certainly mean we would be better inclined to help you out in other ways should you need it. Do you need the land? If so then perhaps we can all come to an agreement. If not then withdrawing will not affect your ability to settle and develop to a reasonable size, and it will put a big next to your name as far as Neu Demogyptica, Glory of War and Roleplay are all concerned.

The point here is that YES we need land. Maybe we don't have to go against GS (yet) if there is still the possibility for expansion.

I think we should look further into this...What does everyone else think?

	25-03-2003 07:45									#33
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I think if we try to expand on BOB we will certainly be stoped by GOW and ND. Going agaisnt GS will be tought but if we don't we can sit out the rest of the game in N Estonia wondering what would have happened if we had took our shot at power when we had the chance.

	26-03-2003 07:28									#34
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I wonder what kind of agreement RP has in mind and what land is involved. Perhaps they know of other land, or would be willing to help us acquire some. Are they interested in joining our war with GS?

	26-03-2003 07:30									#35
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Or is RP hinting that they would be willing to help against ND?

	26-03-2003 07:36									#36
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If the info from Lego is true that RP is building up Swordsmen they may be looking for action against ND. Although GoW has worked with ND in the past, they are dependent on resources from RP so they may end up staying out or joining in against ND.

	26-03-2003 23:04									#37
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In Diss' absence, I sent this off to RP.

Macy - do you want to take over from Diss on RP, and I will deal with GhengisFarb over the next while?

Togas - esteemed leader of the people of the squid,

Greetings, sir! First off I would like to advise you that Dissident has been inovolved in a mystical experience at the temple in The Voice - something called real life. We are not sure when he will re-emerge from the temple, so during this period of his transcendance, could you please direct correspondence to me. Jon will asssign a new foreign affairs advisor to you shortly. Thank-you.

On the matters of trade, we await your response to our earlier trade discussion. We would like to finalize it from our end. In fact, we would like to offer an expansion of the deal to include the Republic, at a cost of 160 gold payable as 8 gpt over 20 turns. This would make the combined deal one of currency, monotheism, and republic in exchange for 19 gold per turn for 20 turns. We would also insist that this deal be kept strictly confidential. You are free of course, to trade further any of these techs, as long as the source is not identified.

Please let me know as soon as possible regarding this deal, as we expect to have the techs shortly. I cannot recall if you have construction, or have made previous arrangements to receive it, but if not, we could also offer it to you at a highly discounted rate.

I trust all is well with you and your fine nation.

Regards ....

Beta
Voice of Foreign Affairs
Vox Controli

	27-03-2003 03:59									#38
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I need to think about it. I have a lot of school work to do, trying to raise my grades. Hell... I'll give it a go for a while

	27-03-2003 05:27									#39
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Response from RP. It is almost like we did not have the chat the other day.

Trade
Hello,
I am Nuclearis Winterius the II, as you may recall, ambassdor of RP to Vox Controli.
I bring a message concerning the recent trade purposals between our teams.
We have no present interest in Republic, as the Depsot declared such a knowledge high treason, and we Spaniards are no traitors, but we do have interest in construction, and we would like to know what price would your team request for it, and also the price for Currency, but we are not sure we will do this deal with your team ,as Legoland has also made some offers in that area. Anyway I personally will try my best to reach an agreement between our teams.
As for Diplomatic Issues related to RP, please contact me, as Ambassdor at The Voice. Even though Togas greatly appreciates talking to your team members, he cannot afford to answer to your team always, as he is very involved with the planing of our nation and with RL issues.
Until then,
Nuclearis Winterius the II

	27-03-2003 07:51									#41
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OK - how do they know this? I just received the save and have to check??? Both the city issue and the iron issue?? The city they can see - but the iron - ah - trade screen - of course.

from RP...

We noticed that GoW now owns your city. It wasn't razed. You guys agree to
peace with them?

Btw, what happened to your iron???

Also, please contact Nuclear Winter about diplomatic issues. I'm happy to hear
them personally, but he was getting downhearted today about how he isn't being
included in diplomatic PMs, and I told him I'd remind Vox to be sure to PM him.


I received your PM about the tech trade. I have posted it and given Nuc Winter
instructions to reply to you. If you don't receive something from him by
tomorrow, let me know and I'll deal with him.

	27-03-2003 21:23									#42
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OK, this could be a problem, but I think we can work around it.
Addressing the city exchange: We gave it to GOW as a peace offering, because our military is weak. However, they are still unhappy and may press the attack onto Esonia, which NeuD are also doing. this also explains why we disconnected our IRON. we are doing it to build warriors to upgrade in defense of our homeland.
GOW then lands troops in the south, we are sending Immortals to meet thi possible threat (WE don't really have to re-declare war on GOW) then when our Immortals are in place Us and GOW attack GS.

	27-03-2003 22:11									#43
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Hi macy - I was thinking about this 'story' as well. My concern is that if GS thinks NeuD and GoW are landing in Estonia, they will start to mobilize. We don't want that to happen. The story still has to be a foreign continent fiasco by us. No foreign troops on Estonia, and Vox just wasting troops and production.

The last part - where GoW horsemen take out the warrior - just before the invasion - will at best buy us one turn - maybe nothing. It will still cause some reaction by GS, maybe just not as big if they think a rogue GoW unit did it , as opposed to a military machine coming down the main road.

	27-03-2003 23:17									#44
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Sent to RP. Hope I didn't sound too desperate to do the deal.

Greetings Nuclearis Winterius II.

It is very good to be doing buisness with you again.

I was disappointed to hear about the republic not being of interest. But I can understand your position on this. However, I would like to know what happened to the deal discussed in the week-end chat of montheism and currency for 220 gold - being 11 gpt, given your current cash crunch which we are trying to accomodate. We would be more than willing to add construction to this deal for a very reasonable price - but it would have to be a deal for all three techs.

If you are contemplating getting Monotheism from another civilization, you would be getting it from someone we are dealing with as we are the only source, and I will tell you that it may lead to us having issues with your trading partners and that initial deal. We do not mean to play the 'heavy' here - but fair is fair. And I also think you understand the logic of it being advantageous to you to deal with the 'last place' team in the world, as opposed to strengthening either your immediate neighbours, or stronger teams.

You see, we actually thought that an agreement was more or less agreed-to on the weekend, so we were somewhat disappointed by your letter. Therefore - as an enticement for both of us to work together on this deal, we are ready to consider any reasonable offer for contsruction, and we will sell it cheap here, as long as it is part and parcel of the original deal.

Our only stipulation, of course, is absolute confidentiality in our dealings.

You will also see that we have respected the wishes of the Bobians, and have 'sold' our city on the continent and pulled our troops out.

I trust that we can resume normal relations, and do business along the lines we have proposed. Please get back to me as soon as possible. Thank-you.

Best wishes - may your wine run freely, and the squid squiggle all the way down.

Cheers! BetaHound, VFA, Vox Controli.

	28-03-2003 01:07									#45
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Beta, sounds good.

I wouldn't talk to them about iron. No use trying to explain something that we really don't want them knowing much about. If anything, I would just say it was a stupid little mistake that will be corrected in time.

	28-03-2003 01:18									#46
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quote: Originally posted by HarryH Beta, sounds good. I wouldn't talk to them about iron. No use trying to explain something that we really don't want them knowing much about. If anything, I would just say it was a stupid little mistake that will be corrected in time.

I agree. Any explanation would just lead to more questions. I left it out all together.

	28-03-2003 08:46									#47
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Jeesh - poly was down for awhile. I was playing my first solo civ3 in awhile.

Long negotiation with Nuclear Winter this evening. Looks like we have a deal nailed dwon. I had to throw in construction to save the deal - but got 60 gold up fornt. It will be a two part deal - 20 gold and 2gpt (total 60) for currency and construction. The next turn, 40 gold and 6 gpt for montheism (total 160). Grand total 220 gold.

Should be finalized tomorrow morning. Fingers crossed. The alternate deal was mono by itself, as 100 gold up front, and 3 gpt for a total of 160. But I think they were keener on the former deal.

	30-03-2003 20:56									#48
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Sent to RP today:

Greetings Togas and Nuclearis Winterius.

Your recent e-mail accompanying the save read:

"we offered again. Please give us an idea of when you will have the technology as we were under the impression that you had it now."

My apologies. I thought it was clear when we were doing the deal - I mentioned the 4th and 5th turn arrangement - I believe. But I have better news than that. It will be this turn or the next. So please offer again, and the deal will be finalized shortly.

Thank-you. Once again my aplogies for the misunderstanding. It was not in any way an attempt to deceive on our part. I assure you of that.

And once again - it was a pleasure doing business with you.

Regards .... BetaHound.

	30-03-2003 23:49									#49
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Roleplay are slippery b*st*rds. The save is with GS and they are currently renegotiating our deal with them I believe. I got this panicked message from Nuclear Winter. In my first response I explained the trade process. In the second, I said this. My fear here is that they will squeal to GS where they were getting currency and construction from, and this may cause us problems. This next turn is going to be very interesting. Stay close jon - I think you will have some work to do.

The messages:

NW - I suspect I know why you want a fast answer from us. And I suspect you are trying to re-negotiate on the deal with another civ. That is morally reprehensible, when a deal was already agreed to.

Furthemore - and despite rumors to the contrary, GoW and Vox are not planning to attack the islands. We no more want war on our continent than you do on yours. But for a small price - a small piece of territory - we may be convinced to help out elsewhere. Please do not destroy our relationship by backtracking on this deal. Geo-politically, Vox and RolePlay have similar medium-term interests. We should be working towards a partnership. Not ending it. Keep that in mind.

Seriously .... Beta.

quote: Nuclear Winter wrote on 30-03-2003 12:08: Ehh, shall we send the purposal for monotheism in this turn? I mean, have you got it already? I am ! Answer fast!

	30-03-2003 23:55									#50
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The other thougt I just had - is that we are the only world source of Monotheism. The Lego deal is solid. As is the Gow-NeuD deal. Both can be trusted not to pass it on. To be safe - we might want to hold off on GoW.

And then we go back to RP and say fine - you backed out of the previous deal - then fine, no monotheism trades until we re-negotiate and agree on a new price. And the price has gone up to 220 gold. All up front.

	31-03-2003 00:12									#51
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Maybe I read his note wrong.

In case I did - I just sent this. A little one person good cop bad cop routine. Remember my schizophrenic comment?

Re: Trade confusion
NW - my friend - my apologies for my last message. It was harsh - and now that I have re-read your note - I see that it was not necessary. Please forgive an over-worked foreign advisor. With Dissident away I have been pulling triple duty. Sigh.

To clarify - yes - we will have monotheism this turn - but I don't think we can provide it to you until we have sent you currency and construction.

And to be even more clear - there are no plans in the work to gang up on you - well I can't speak for NeuD and GoW. But I can for Vox. I am serious about us having common medium-term interests. We can help each other.

And yes - there are a ton of rumors floating around right now. Gathering Storm and us have been comparing the latest and most interesting ones.

Again - my apologies - Beta.
quote:

Nuclear Winter wrote on 30-03-2003 12:08:
Ehh, shall we send the purposal for monotheism in this turn?
I mean, have you got it already?
I am !
Answer fast!

	31-03-2003 04:00									#52
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OK - good news. This deal is still on. I chatted with NW and straightened it out. They are still slippery - but the deal is done as planned.

In this chat, NW wanted to know if I knew anything about Ghengis' comments at another sites chat room where he was atlikng about our ptwdg and intercontinental war. I said he may have been talking about our last dust-up, or he may be dreaming again. I said I had had chats with Ghengis where he discussed everything under the sun, but as far as I know, there is nothing in the works - at confirmed that vox did not have any such aspirations.

	31-03-2003 07:44									#53
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Came with the save from RP.

"Offer those techs as soon as you have them.

We have established an embassy with Vox Controli

What happened to your iron? We saw Immortals in the screenshot but you clearly
have no iron now ... we're curious about what happened.

Also, we now have a better understanding of why you wanted to build Witlitch
West. It is very close to your capital, closer than to any other capital."

	31-03-2003 08:55									#54
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My note to RP.

Techs
Greetings Nuclearis Winterius II.

Thank-you gain for our engaging discussion this afternoon. And now I have good news. Construction and Currency have both been sent to you as accepted. I could not send Monotheism as you are not yet in the middle ages. We will on our next turn. To simplify the deal - you can either send us the payment as agreed for the first part - as accepted, or payment on both parts of the deal as accepted. Either way will work for us. We will send Monotheism next turn.

Again - we have enjoyed doing business with you, and look forward to productive dealings for both our civilizations in the future.

My best regards to you, and Togas, and the other citizens of your civilization ..... Beta.

	06-04-2003 07:59									#55
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Was doing my registering for MIRC tonight - popped into Apolyton for a sec, and got cornered by Nuclear Winter of RP.

He wanted to know if we had feudalism for trade. He says that they have another offer, and wanted to know if we could provide it cheaper. I asked about the source, and he told me it was GS.

I asked if it was a present or future trade. He said he thought it was present. I don't buy this for an instant. They could not have possibly have researched it by now.

Anyways - I said I would look into when we might have it, and at what cost - just to buy time and keep the lines of communication open.

I am also using my intel network - which should have a good reading on GS's ETA for feudalism shortly. Will keep you posted as soon as I find something out.

	06-04-2003 08:15									#56
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I can't believe GS has finished Feudalism.

But, worse case scenario - It will cost them to upgrade their units. With thier high research rate, I don't beleive that they have too much gold laying around...

I still say we go with the mission. I think this is a ruse on the part of GS (and possibly RP).

	06-04-2003 09:14									#57
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And wow.. this came with the save tonight. So - does GS have any friends in this game???

From Togas - via e-mail:

We HAVE to talk! I've instructed Nuc Winter to PM you immediately. We're VERY
impressed -- you linked up iron, upgraded your warriors to immortals and, for a
short time, were the most powerful military in the world ... until we made an
upgrade and tied you.

Our two nations both equal in military might!

I am praying that you are going to invade GS. If you do, you have the blessing
of Spain. Perhaps we can find a way to assist you.

If you are going to invade Legoland, you MUST tell us now. We are currently
negotiationg a MPP with Legoland and if you're going to attack them, please tell
us so that we don't sign it!

Please arrange for a chat with us tomorrow or tonight if possible. There is much
to discuss. So long as you have no plans to attack us, I believe that Spain can
and will be on your side. Give us a try.

--Togas

	06-04-2003 14:18									#58
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About Feudalism
Hola Señor Jon, I am Nuclearis Winterius the III ambassdor of the Roleplay team to the Vox Controlli team.
I am contacting you instead of Señor Betahound because you are the one online right now. Please convey this message to him if you don´t have the time available to answer it.
I am sending this message because Spain has heard a rumour of a nation having discovered the secrets of a tech called feudalism. We were very interested, and my most honored Lord, Togas, has ordered me to go look out for it. I am thus asking if your nation knows this secret, so we would like to comunicate the price that has been offered to us by it. We would pay the given team 12gpt or 200 golds in exchange for it. If your team has this technology available, and can offer it at a better price, we would like to know.

Best wishes,
Nuclearis Winterius the III,
proud ambassdor of Roleplay´s Spania to Persian Vox Controlli

	06-04-2003 19:29									#59
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If RP want to assist us, they might find a way to get the map of GS... That would help us very much...

	06-04-2003 23:51									#60
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Message from Nuclear Winter. Important!

quote: Our military strategists presume Vox Controlli is about to declare war on another civilization. We need to know what nation are you going to battle with. By knowing this we can probably aid you with many deals and such, and you can be assured we won´t tell this to anyone. We amy even aid if one of your enemies is a continental one... beside, we are about to sign a mutual protection treaty with a given nation, and we might not sign it if your nation tell us you are going to war with it in time. Comunicating this to us is of the utmost importance, so please do it, we may want to give direct aid if it is a common enemy, please comunicate us of a time you are available to chat with the Roleplay team. Also, if you can, please post this on your team´s forum so that all may get to know the contents of this. My best wishes toward Vox Controlli, Nuclearis Winterius the III

Bolding mine.