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ZargonX
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Space
Sep 2002
time: 00:26
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Oh, I took it to mean "crap" in regards to the loss. I could be wrong, though. It can be hard to interpret one-word replies, even if you are a native speaker  As for your draft, Vondrack, it looks very good. I also believe GS know they have no saltpeter, as I'm going to guess some boasting GoWer probably taunted them with the fact at some point. We don't need to say it explicitly, but they will know what we mean.
And, yes, if they can't learn to have fun with the game, maybe we should just let them fall into obscurity...
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vondrack
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Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2002
time: 06:26
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quote:
Originally posted by lmtoops
They have dished out enough taunts, that they deserve to take a few. |
That's a good point. After taunting your opponent, you should be ready to accept some mocking in return, if you fail.
quote:
Originally posted by lmtoops
It will be interesting to see how they respond (in game). They could temporarily back off, make peace, or go all out war. At this point, I cannot determine which direction they will take. |
I am more and more convinced they will withdraw/quit from the war. After losing Army Group South and with a force too weak to actually make any difference in the East (I have just received a response from Aggie - what we can see on that coastal mountain is most probably part of the stack that was threatening Yellowknife), they have little means to keep the war efforts up.
After we offer friendly relations and support in case they withdraw, they would have to be nuts to not quit. They must be able to see their efforts are utterly futile. I'd bet they will try to keep their face by somehow saving RPers from extinction, probably by granting them exile in the Northern Stormia (since they will feel we would side with them if GoW/ND followed overseas - and I believe we should, if that was to happen).
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vondrack
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Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2002
time: 06:26
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Just to keep you informed, this is the message I included with the 370AD save sent to GS:
quote:
This is an official communication from the Senate of Legoland:
quote:
Honourable Nation of Gathering Storm,
We, the Senate of Legoland, thank you for the honest message and open
analysis of your current situation and options. We hope this response
of ours will make it easier for you to understand where we stand, what
our plans/intensions are, and most importantly, how all that affects
our current and future relations.
First: we, to a large extent, agree with your analysis regarding the
potentials of Lego, GS, GoW, and ND. In case GoW and ND split Bob
between themselves in a fair way, their potentials will almost match
the potential of Lego, with GS being severely shafted. We also agree
that a more-than-2-civ Bob would suit even our plans better, alas...
we do not see a way to create a stable world incorporating such a
setup.
Assuming RP either dies or survives only in a small exile in the
Northern Stormia and GS gains a decent share of the Bobian territory
(~100 tiles), the world might seem slightly better balanced at the
first glance: Lego ~400 tiles, GoW, ND, and GS ~300 tiles each. The
problem, though (from our point of view) would be that GS would make
our situation easier (by weakening the potential of GoW & ND), while
not improving its own enough to be able to win peacefully. If not
giving up the hopes to win the game, GS would be forced to try
conquering more land in order to match or outmatch us. Inevitably, we
would have to respond by defending the attacked nations, getting
involved.
Which, however, is exactly what's happening now.
When the war broke out and your armies joined, rather unexpectedly,
the troops of RP, we faced quite a difficult decision. Despite GoW and
ND entering their GA, we did not believe they were strong enough to
withstand the might of yours & RP combined in the long run, especially
considering your stunning triumph over the strong army of Voxian
immortals (later events have pretty much confirmed our concerns). We
had to decide whether we preferred Bob split between GoW & ND only or
(possibly multinational) Bob with your strong presence - which we, as
explained earlier in this message, regarded as a permanent threat to
our long term plans (we do not wish to expand beyond Legos).
Considering the circumstances addressed earlier, we decided the lesser
evil for us was Bob split between GoW & ND - and allied with them,
strictly defining the extent of our involvement and the goal to
achieve.
While it was not possible to ally with GoW & ND and protect them from
being overwhelmed by your armies without de facto standing
against RP, too, we did make it clear we would not get involved in
operations against RP. There was/is a treaty binding us to join no
wars against RP... and even though it probably sounds a bit
ridiculous, we still honour it in the way we deem appropriate. The
destruction or crippling of RP was/is not our business, even if we
have no intentions to oppose it. Furthermore, it would be futile to
pretend our own selfish interests are better served with anything but
a prolonged conflict on Bob.
It certainly is no news for you that GoW and ND want no presence of
yours on Bob. Legoland's role in this triple alliance is, said in a
bit simplified way, to ensure you do not win (on Bob), rather than to
ensure you lose there - though, in the end, it probably means the
same.
However, we would like to make it crystal clear that our role in the
alliance with GoW and ND ends with your last soldier leaving the
shores of Bob (or with a peace treaty signed between you, GoW, and
ND). As leaked in the chat some time ago, we even made it abundantly
clear to our current allies we would not support any invasion of
Stormia. Not only we would not support/join it, but we would oppose
it, just like we currently oppose your presence on Bob.
Once the war is over, we are ready to fully revive the cooperation and
trading between our two nations, including techs, luxuries, and
possibly even strategic resources. As correctly implied by your
message, a feeble GS would serve the victorious Bobians most,
indirectly hurting our own interests. We are ready to ensure GS keeps
at least on par with Bob tech-wise and that GS armed forces are
properly equipped to defend their homeland against potential
invasions. Once the war on Bob is over (or GS no longer involved in
it), there will be nothing preventing a close cooperation between our
two nations, unless, of course, GS decides to not cooperate with a
nation that hurt its interests in The Great Bobian War. Even if this
paragraph is not written in bold, it is the key part of our message to
you.
We fully acknowledge that our approach to the current situation, with
respect to you, is far from "fair". You've got every right to feel
bitter about us standing in your way. But then, in this sense, trying
to win the game is not "fair" to anyone... only one team can win and
Lego wants to win, in its own "builder" way, as much as you or anyone
else does.
We hope you understand - and we hope that despite standing against
each other now, we will not remain that way forever.
The Senate of Legoland |
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vondrack
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Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2002
time: 06:26
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Hmmmm... good thing I have not played the turn yet. This from Cort Haus:
quote:
Vondrack,
You have the turn, so I want to suggest this now, while there's time.
GS intends to withdraw from Bob, but as we don't know whether we have any saltpeter on Stormia or within the area we still hold on Bob, we are clinging on until we have gunpowder (which we are researching).
If we knew for sure that we were holding none on Bob, we could start leaving immediately and attempt to make peace with ND & GoW. If we are holding some on Bob, but we have none on Stormia then it is essential that we do not abandon it yet - even a couple of turns of SP could be worth us fighting for.
Lego have already succeeded in weakening GS to the point of us no longer being in contention. Technically, we understand that your position in the alliance against us remains until every GS unit is off Bob, but the die is cast and Lego must recognise, for their own good, that GS is already broken as a rival.
So can you give us Gunpowder now to resolve the issue? It's a cheap tech now, but still takes turns. Lego has won its war, GS has blown the GoW/ND GA for you and delayed the construction of the Bobian uber-power. Now we need a break - in the interests of both of our civs. So how about it?
Regards,
CH
GS |
I do not think we should send them GP for free now, but it may be worth considering whether to tell them they do not have any saltpeter on Stormia and that they do not hold any saltpeter on Bob (read: have any in the cultural borders) at the moment.
I am going to sit on the save until hearing back from at least some of you.
EDIT: we may also consider assuring GS of trading our excess saltpeter (for their second lux?), if they agree to reasonable conditions (no Bob invasion for a set period of time?)
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lmtoops
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Dallas, Texas
Mar 2002
time: 23:26
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Let's not forget our alliance with GoW/ND. Although we are not a war with RP, our allies are. So we cannot give RP our GP, in good faith.
Now we can trade GP to GS (after peace, GS off Bob), but put not trading restrictions. So if they give it to RP, so be it. It would help us a little...it would drain a few more resources from our allies, but in the end RP is toast.
Actally, this probably doesn't matter. I would think that part of the Peace deal would be the removal of RP from Bob. On the other hand (I think this is my 6th hand  ), RP may wand to fight to the end. In any case, I say do not restrict GS on trading GP (but do not encourage it). If our allies complain, we can claim ignorance or stupidity, "we apoligize for our lapse in negotiations, Legoland failed to put a restriction on trading." .
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vondrack
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Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2002
time: 06:26
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OK, we should respond somehow to the GS inquiry. Here is my attempt, considering what has been posted since yesterday in our forum. I believe there is no hurry, so we can discuss this a bit before sending it to GS:
quote:
Cort Haus,
After discussing your inquiry in the Senate of Legolad, we believe there is no harm in telling you that there is no saltpeter on Stormia and that there is no saltpeter inside or close to cultural borders of the territory you and RP currently hold on Bob.
As for trading gunpowder to you... we are sorry but that cannot be done until there is a peace treaty signed between you and GoW/ND. We hope you understand we cannot provide a key military tech to you, as long as you remain enemies of our current allies (even if you intend to withdraw from the war).
However, you have got our word that once the war between you and GoW/ND formally ends, we will trade gunpowder to you at a fair price - and not only that. If you agree to not influence the war on Bob (if there still is one at that time, of course), we will trade you one of our excess saltpeters.
We hope this guarantee will be enough for you to start negotiating a peace treaty with GoW/ND.
Respectfully,
vondrack |
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01-12-2003 14:31
Darekill spends half an hour writing a rather cool poem for everybody to read, posting in the almost dead public forum, and those idiots rush to tell him how naughty he was doing that... 
Though, at this point, RP doesn't have any access to saltpeter either, do they? Either way, it's a diplomatic thing. I can't imagine our allies would be too happy with us trading with the enemy, even if it were indirectly 
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