10-03-2003 22:08									#1
	Cow Valley Expansion Plans -- Discussion Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I have drawn up a Cow Valley Expansion plan proposal that involves Pamplona's (the birthing city of most of our nation) next three settlers. It is my hope that two of these cities will soon become new Spanish city birthing factories, allowing Pamplona's potential for massive production to help us with other necessary building projects.

It is also my hope that our worker force will immediately build the infrastructure needed for these expansions once iron is linked up. This plan should cause virtually no loss in worker turns, and with 3 workers together, roads and irrigation can be made in 1 turn.

I posted the image to my Spain Page which you should already have bookmarked. If not, this link will suffice.

Please discuss.

--Togas

	11-03-2003 01:23									#2
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Lord Togas, I did not have the opportunity to look at your proposal. I think it has been replaced with recent turns. Would there be any chance of it getting posted again?

	11-03-2003 02:13									#3
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It's there. It's posted below the current maps and graphs. Just keep scrolling down.

--Togas

	11-03-2003 02:33									#4
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Isn't number 2 too close to Saragossa? I would prefer moving it one tile SW to make better use of the land.

By the way, are we going to ask ND scout to leave before or after we settle?

	11-03-2003 02:49									#5
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Yes, I would also move site 2 one SW to have one less square of overlap. As for site 3, this city will not grow above 6, making it useful as a unit pump only. I have no problem with one city like this, but I only want one. What are we doing with "7" from the 2 week old map in the map thread. Do we still plan on building a city there?

Personally, I would build "site 3" I sw of the location you mentioned, allowing more growth. (later) Build another city 2 SW of the "7" square. Then another 1 N OR N-NW of "14" on the river. Scrap "12" near all those mountains.

	11-03-2003 05:26									#6
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Site 2 was placed where it was for 2 reasons: 1) to get the best growth tiles within it's initial city radius and 2) to be exactly 3 tiles from both Saragossa & Santiago.

Site 2 is a worker/settler farm by design, but is also serves an an excellent staging point for mobile units to protect all parts of Cow Valley. Site 2 is pretty much set in stone.

Site 3 was mostly set up to to steal the use of that Pamplona flood plain, as Pamplona grows rather fast without it. Site 3 is a new idea, and as I've started to become seduced by the darkside of "borg" build styles and semi-permanent city sites, I've become less detered by overlap, and focus more on immediate usage of key tiles instead of having to invest in long term city production.

Added this link to help fuel our discussion: Appropriate City Placement and City Placement redux

Should site 3 lose it's purpose as a settler factory, I would be happy for us to move it to a better long term growth spot, like more SW.

Anyhow, I do hope to see more discussion about where Site 3 should be. Please continue to discuss.

--Togas

Last edited by Togas on 11-03-2003 at 05:50

	11-03-2003 05:38									#7
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btw, CiverDan, I invite you to also post your proposal for our future city sites to the Map Room. All members of Spain are encouraged to contribute their own proposals.

--Togas

	11-03-2003 07:19									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Togas Site 3 was mostly set up to to steal the use of that Pamplona flood plain, as Pamplona grows rather fast without it. Site 3 is a new idea, and as I've started to become seduced by the darkside of "borg" build styles and semi-permanent city sites, I've become less detered by overlap, and focus more on immediate usage of key tiles instead of having to invest in long term city production.

Señor Arnelos, I might request in the near future to borrow you Palpatine avatar so that I may build a grand army of the repub... err, Pamplona and burn this so-called "Site 3" to the ground.

No self-respectin' Pamplite would have another city encroach on our floodplains. By god! If it floods, I want my citizens to drown. Muwahahahahahaha!!!!!!

	15-03-2003 01:36									#9
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I would suggest that City 2 bulding was delayed a bit. After analyzing the Barcelona situation, I find that it would be important to develop the south of Spain with the help of the 2nd settler of Pamplona. This settler could go to found the spices site while Pamplona start bulding the settler to found the city #2.

Togas, your plan is certainly good but I find that we should think on the other side of our country too. And since Madrid should continue to act mostly as military factory, Barcelona isn't the good city to carry with the south development of our country.

After building the iron city, which will close our east coastal border from the possible ND landing, I think it would be more balancing if the next Pamplona settler went to the south-east.

Regarding the military, It would be take long before the #2 city (according to your plan) was able to help building units. Before founding this city, we could place a units stack on this spot ready to go to any border city needing their help.

For more details of the Barcelona-side development, please see here :

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...251#post1820251

	21-03-2003 20:39									#10
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Workscope described plus minimal development for Iron City (Vigo?), and one Gem tile requires

84 worker turns on task
12 worker turns move in
?? worker turns travel to

we have 5 workers
One will be busy irrigating Barcelona for a while

Hence in excess of 20 turns are indicated unless we get more workers. Most of our current workers are positioned to do Vigo Gem development. The worker now doing Pamplona tile development is positioned for Site 2 approaches and connection but is inadequate to the task. No workers are positioned for Site 3 approaches and connection, nor the Site 2/Site 3 road.

We desperately need more workers. Can the City Governors please build them?

Manuel de Leon

	22-03-2003 00:24									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

We need to determine which cities could squeeze in workers. I await word from the Govenors about this. I have heard from Governor Nuclear Winter that Santiago can spare workers ... as there is a great deal of crime in that city, a good source of future free labor. However, his city must first complete their city walls.

Pamplona is building 2 settlers.
Madrid has a settler coming soon.
Barcalona must first finish it's harbor, then build a settler.
Saragossa will produce military, but may be able to spare a worker.
Vigo is too new, but will be able to spare a worker after the temple is done.

Also, I ask that gem mining be put on the backburner. Instead, I ask that our slave force be put to use building a 2nd road from Vigo to the site where our floodplain city, Leon, will be, and then irrigating those 2 floodplains, then connecting the road from Leon back to Pamplona, so that we will have TWO roads to iron, in case one of them is cut in a war.

Leon will serve Spain as a settler or worker pump, and should help boost our growth. Getting it up and running quickly is my foremost concern.

--Togas