14-03-2003 04:46									#1
	Turn 18 Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

OK, this is the discussion thread for 18.

Wake up, everybody, we've got neighbours.

Possums, if I am not mistaken...

	14-03-2003 04:54									#2
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Run for the hills!

We should hop on that hill there to take a 'look-see'.

Maybe if no one is home, we should walk right in?!

	14-03-2003 04:57									#3
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Yikes... big image...

Where's Togas when you need him...

	14-03-2003 05:00									#4
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CDG...Persians...Immortals. They start with BW and Masonry. We should try to trade for BW if possible. Unless they are boxed in like us, they probably wont try to attack us (why go through jungle to attacked mercs with immortals.)

Do do have to decide on our gameplan though..do we expand peacefully. We will probably get half the jungle at most, unless they have good terrian and only want to expand in one direction, thought I can't see them leaving there capital exposed for too long.

	14-03-2003 05:03									#5
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They probably have better land than us. We can probably negotiate for most of the jungle.

Luckily our NMs are powerful enough to stop their Immortals dead in their tracks. Unfortunately, that also means that any offensive war against them would probably end badly as soon as they get iron, which probably won't be too long...

	14-03-2003 05:04									#6
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Here's a scary thought....they could have a unit or two near our Capitol just outside of our sight right now as well!

	14-03-2003 05:08									#7
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Not too likely, unless they have bad terrain as well..Thats the only reason we went into the jungle to begin with.

	14-03-2003 05:08									#8
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I know we've got a lot to think about right now, but are we planning to get that Hut we skipped anytime soon? The Persians could very well scoop it up from under us...

Also, given that we did not contact them yet, it seems reasonable to conclude that our continent is quite large, extendeding in the southern direction.


Dominae

	14-03-2003 05:11									#9
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I assume we are going back to that after moving W to make contact.

	14-03-2003 05:33									#10
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quote: Also, given that we did not contact them yet, it seems reasonable to conclude that our continent is quite large, extendeding in the southern direction.

I have a feeling it shoots off towards the W as well. This can work in our favor though, as CDG is likely to have neighbors to their S and/or W, meaning they probably wouldn't want to turn their backs to hit us early.

	14-03-2003 05:35									#11
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Should we revise our city placement strategy? Should we place southern cities faster in order to block thier way?

--Kon--

	14-03-2003 05:36									#12
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As I said before, why would they go through jungle to attack mercs with immortals anyway.

	14-03-2003 05:39									#13
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quote: They probably have better land than us. We can probably negotiate for most of the jungle.

I agree. We are more likely to be expanding SW before they want to expand NE.

	14-03-2003 05:43									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Konquest02 Should we revise our city placement strategy? Should we place southern cities faster in order to block thier way? --Kon--

Every useless city we place puts us that much further behind them in potential for growth. We must settle the best sites for us first. If we get boxed in, then they will have made our path clear for us.

	14-03-2003 05:51									#15
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Every useless city we place puts us that much further behind them in potential for growth. We must settle the best sites for us first. If we get boxed in, then they will have made our path clear for us.

The Minister of Defense shall enjoy reading this; I'm sure he has plans for dispensing of cities that may block our righteous path.

	14-03-2003 05:55									#16
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If push comes to shove...

I don't think it will be an issue. As Aeson and I have said, their interests no doubt lie elsewhere. However, a border agreement would be in our favor either way, especially if we're going for a "dense core" in the near future.

	14-03-2003 07:10									#17
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Well comparing our score to them, they currently have 43 vs. our own 46. This probably means they have only one city. Actually, looking at the past turn summary reports, they turned to a size 3 city at turn 15. So far there has been no drop in their population so they haven't built a settler.

Powerwise, they are pretty much in the same position as we are. But they have about 4 turns of growth on us (I believe we go to size 3 at turn 19).

Edit: Rewrote this to account for the fact that they grew in size at Turn 15

Last edited by WhiteBandit on 14-03-2003 at 07:16

	14-03-2003 07:26									#18
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Oh that just great....

GengisFarb is upon us already

	14-03-2003 07:29									#19
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At the rate that GF throws techs around and the cost at which he does so, this could work out nicely for us.

	14-03-2003 08:07									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Trip At the rate that GF throws techs around and the cost at which he does so, this could work out nicely for us.

Agreed.

Unless he has a no-Apolyton-trade rule. Which I doubt.

	14-03-2003 08:19									#21
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GF is a member of that team, not the leader, so far as i can tell. He may be a big factor, he may not.

Does anyone know much about their team? How many? Who? What sorts of players? etc...

	14-03-2003 08:28									#22
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If it's the team I think it is, then it's an offshoot of CFC. A bunch of modders, many of them good with the game. I would doubt that GF would have too much influence in their team, but we shouldn't rule out the possibility.

	14-03-2003 13:32									#23
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During a chat session I had with him well before the game even started, he said that they have a small team.

Less than 10 active members I would guess

His exact comment was that they are a small but "well rounded" team.

	14-03-2003 16:49									#24
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Not immortals again....

If they are in the middle, they are gonna have a though time. Keep the warrior going further to see if there is anyone else there, before they prevent us from doing so (borderagreement etc.)

	14-03-2003 17:21									#25
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quote: Originally posted by alva If they are in the middle, they are gonna have a though time. Keep the warrior going further to see if there is anyone else there, before they prevent us from doing so (borderagreement etc.)

That's what I'd think too. Keep that guy going, get as much recon as possible. We might even want to delay negotions for such an agreement until he is well South of them and already on the way to finding anothe possible contact.

I think it might take just as long for him to get there (after we make contact) as it would for us to build a Warrior after the Granery and then send that Warrior to pop it. According to my calculation it will take 9 turns for Wbigfree1 to get there. That would be on turn 27 (since we are on 18 now) And the Granery is to be finnished on turn 24, which means a Warrior can be completed on turn 25. Wbigfree1 could beat W4 by two turns to the hut; but is that worth it? It might be gone.

Of course I'd like to pop that hut before the Persian's do it, but we may not have a choice, they could even have a unit near it now.

Should the Persian's be refered to this way or is CDG more appropriate or even the Elucidians instead of the Persians?

	14-03-2003 17:29									#26
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Part of the strength of the early granary also lies on getting those settlers OUT as fast as you can once you have it. I agree that with a game tile it was a good idea to go for the fast granary, but let's not lose sight of the fact that we need to get settlers out quickly and often in order to take advantage of it.

If we negotiated an IMMEDIATE boundary agreement, we could push settlers out of that town quickly- and, although I know people will probably scream "Too risky, barbarians!" - without escort. I think we could get away with it - at least for the first settler and city (to the WEST, ::cough cough:: ) since the barbarian encampments won't have appeared yet.

Just some thoughts.

	14-03-2003 18:02									#27
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But we have a few Barbs that are running around freely right now; you may have missed it Fried, we popped two huts and got Barbs both times. The first, way up north near the game tile, off'ed our poor Warrior dubed betahound. Though the three that came out of the 2nd hut left my namesake alone, they are still none-the-less roaming freely through the jungle. Letting a Settler run un-escorted would be most unadvisable. It will take just one turn to pump out a warrior after the granery is finnished. Cheap insurance if you ask me.

	14-03-2003 18:15									#28
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Here's another thought: Should we switch from BW now since were likely to get it from the Persians? If we do, and I think we should, we should also go for Writing and line up a possible trade for IW plus gold or another low level tech for it from the Persians. My second choice would be either the Wheel or Mathematics.

IW value is 6
Writing value is 8


EDIT:
BTW I'm not up early I'm up late...just finnished writing a 9 page report on Disease models concerning the Black Death, a plague in 14th century Europe. I need sleep, I go to bed now.

	14-03-2003 21:38									#29
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Definately send the warrior to a hill next turn for a looksy.

I'm surprized that the western goody hut is still there, I have my doughts that we will be able to get it. If we had backtracked with the warrior we would have easily gotten it.

On Science reserach, maintaign exisitng BW reserach (too late to switch without wasting lots of beakers), but spend very little money on BW considering it considering our status.

Hopefully the Persians don't already have Iron Working.

	15-03-2003 02:52									#30
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Why hurry to make contact?

Move the warrior south first. When we move it west the next turn, it will look like it came from the SE. Yes I know that we can't actully see units move in PBEM, but the fact that our warrior showed up on the southern side will indicate to them the direction it came from.