14-03-2003 08:04									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Nope. Blair is outmanuvering you. For awhile it looked like the UNSC resoultion would fail to get even a majority of the votes required, now Blair is coming up with a scheme that will get us 9 votes for the UNSC and allow us to go with war more support. Bush has been very clear he will go to war unless Saddam starts some drastic reversal; so you guys haven't accomplished anything.

Snooze. When will Blair get his 9 votes?

	14-03-2003 08:04									#32
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quote: Originally posted by yavoon if disagreeing w/ an inept organization(the UN) hurts foreign relations. then let them be hurt. and if feminists keep protesting an invasion that would remove from power a dictator in a region known for all but taking a huge steaming dump on woman. I am also not worried. its all just knee jerk reaction by the left.

Women in Iraq enjoy probably the most freedoms of any women in the Arab world. What are you talking about?

	14-03-2003 08:04									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov This is a BAM:

Actually, it really isn't. The extent of French-Iraqi ties are well known, and there is really no other conceivable reason for France to threaten to veto "any deadline" for disarmament - would that mean that if Hussein says Uday's grandkid might get around to it next century, then that's OK with France?

"more time for the inspection process to work" is a lot different than simply opposing any timetable. And if force is never going to be an option, then what? Indefinite continuation of sanctions, that have had no positive effect on any side so far?

	14-03-2003 08:05									#34
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They aren't even going to bother putting it to a vote. They won't get 9 for the original resolution, and Washington doesn't even want the British compromise...

	14-03-2003 08:05									#35
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that doesn't mean a whole lot. I guess it'd be like having to be poked w/ the least hot poker in hell?

	14-03-2003 08:05									#36
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quote: Actually, it really isn't.

Foghorn is smiling...

	14-03-2003 08:05									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Women in Iraq enjoy probably the most freedoms of any women in the Arab world.

Nonsense, look at Qatar...

	14-03-2003 08:06									#38
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Bush's advisors are starting to suggest he withdraw the resolution entirely rather than having it face an almost-certain defeat by vote. It's not going to get 9.

	14-03-2003 08:06									#39
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Was Iraq the place where 100% of the people voted in favor of Saddam?

Freedom? Iraq? Booyah.

	14-03-2003 08:07									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Now boy, ah say boy, ... At least I'm not a chickenhawk...

You're no chicken!

I say, what am I then, boy?

You're a loud-mouthed schnook!

I love Foghorn with that chickenhawk and the dog. Best trio of characters in looney tunes.

	14-03-2003 08:08									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber So basically you are against Hussein being caught in a lie you admit he has probably told and committed?

I don't think there whould be war just because of what someone says or doesn't say. Iraq hasn't done anything to us. We have no legitimate reason to go to war with them.

quote: I only wished you would have been this motivated against the intervention in Kosovo. What has got you motivated this time I wonder. Is it simply Bush? Is Killing Iraqis any more wrong than killing Serbs? Are you just bored?

I wasn't at Poly when that war went down. I didn't come here 'till a year afterwards, which may be why you don't remember me saying much.

For practical reasons, I couldn't be involved with the miniscule anti-war movement, as my grandfather broke his hip right before the war began (March 18, 1999), and I spent the war taking care of my grandmother. He died two days after my birthday (April 30, 1999) from complications. I stayed at my grandmother's until early July, when my mother moved home to take care of my grandmother full time.

Even had that not been the case though, at the time I felt (and I still feel) that there was really no point in being actively opposed to the Kosovo War simply because we had no chance of stopping it. While I see a need to protest when you feel the government is doing something you feel is wrong, I also consider it political masturbation. It makes you feel good but it accomplishes little else.

	14-03-2003 08:08									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Nonsense, look at Qatar...

That's why I said "probably."

Women in Iraq are not treated terribly, certainly not by Middle Eastern standards. They can vote, drive, go to college, own property, and even wear pants.

	14-03-2003 08:09									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Was Iraq the place where 100% of the people voted in favor of Saddam? Freedom? Iraq? Booyah.

So how many Kuwaitis got to vote for their leaders?

	14-03-2003 08:12									#44
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Actually, it really isn't. The extent of French-Iraqi ties are well known, and there is really no other conceivable reason for France to threaten to veto "any deadline" for disarmament - would that mean that if Hussein says Uday's grandkid might get around to it next century, then that's OK with France? "more time for the inspection process to work" is a lot different than simply opposing any timetable. And if force is never going to be an option, then what? Indefinite continuation of sanctions, that have had no positive effect on any side so far?

This whole thing is really just a tempest in a teapot all blown out of proportions.

It can't be about Saddam Hussein being a nasty bastard. There are loads of nasty bastards that GWB hasn't said a word about.

It can't be about violation of human rights.

It can't be about getting CBN weapons.

It can't be about Bush Sr., who came out spanking Dubya not so long ago.

Since we all know what the war is about, GWB and/or his lapdog Blair making all these noises can't fool anybody. That's why France is dead set against it. It's not because they are unreasonable, it's because they know what the US/UK is really up to.

	14-03-2003 08:12									#45
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yes woman can vote in iraq. and they just luv saddam so much. why not keep him around.

he seems like a chummyguy. hey and if he pisses them off they can go protest!

	14-03-2003 08:12									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov So how many Kuwaitis got to vote for their leaders?

You mean like when Saddam invaded them to take over?

	14-03-2003 08:13									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov That's why I said "probably." Women in Iraq are not treated terribly, certainly not by Middle Eastern standards. They can vote, drive, go to college, own property, and even wear pants.

But they can't afford it. Iraq has some of the poorest living standards in the world...

	14-03-2003 08:14									#48
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I wonder why that is?

	14-03-2003 08:15									#49
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Actually, there is democracy in Iraq. In the North, the Kurds have a functioning democracy . . . which will be snuffed out when the Turks invade.

Won't it be the greatest of ironies if the people that everyone keeps bringing up as a reason to have the war, the Kurds who were gassed by Hussein (and Iran) end up fighting against the invasion to defend their democracy?

	14-03-2003 08:16									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger I wonder why that is?

How may Palaces does Saddam have?
Where does the funding for the anti-Iran militia come from?

It's no wonder. Iraq is rich, they spend it all on military to invade their neighbors or on riches for Saddam and his buddies.

	14-03-2003 08:17									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Asher You mean like when Saddam invaded them to take over?

Yeah, after Kuwait had been pilfering Iraqi oil and U.S. officials had given Saddam tacit approval to take action against Kuwait. Oops!

quote: But they can't afford it. Iraq has some of the poorest living standards in the world...

Prior to 1991, Iraq was one of the wealthiest Mideast countries, had a very high standard of living and was on its way to being a 1st-world nation in probably another decade.

Gee, what changed?

	14-03-2003 08:19									#52
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hey lets be fair, saddam held elections. which seems to be the std for democracies in the middle east.

I seriously doubt the turks will invade and occupy northern iraq. I just dont see it being reasonable. And I've never heard of anyone besides paranoid ppl thinking that somehow the US will give northern iraq to turkey or that we'll just not look when they take it.

	14-03-2003 08:20									#53
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The defense of Saddam Hussein that I'm witnessing in this thread makes me want to cry, honest to god. What the hell happened to you people?

	14-03-2003 08:21									#54
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Che, you got it completely wrong. I understand that France indicated that it might now consider supporting a resolution with a timetable and a list of action items. This is why they put the vote off.

France did this because Blair openly hammered them in Commons for their intransigence. They had apparently rejected any new resolution in principle without even knowing what it was.

Britain is increasingly disdainful of Chirac. So much so, that a majority of Commons now would support war without a UN vote.

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	14-03-2003 08:21									#55
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umm kuwait was just slant drilling. thats like saying we steal the colorado river from mexico.

and I hardly think the US foreign policy WAS EVER to allow ANY consolidation of oil in the middle east. this constant espousing that the US was like "omg yah invade kuwait so u can have more oil and more power." is not only obviously stupid foreign policy from a selfish standpoint.

it just doesn't make any sense.

	14-03-2003 08:22									#56
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quote: Originally posted by yavoon hey lets be fair, saddam held elections. which seems to be the std for democracies in the middle east. I seriously doubt the turks will invade and occupy northern iraq. I just dont see it being reasonable. And I've never heard of anyone besides paranoid ppl thinking that somehow the US will give northern iraq to turkey or that we'll just not look when they take it.

We've been "not looking" for a decade while Turkey has been making bombing runs into Northern Iraq and decimating Kurdish villages.

But no, Northern Iraq won't be given to Turkey, nor will it be made into an independent Kurdistan.

	14-03-2003 08:23									#57
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yah I agree drake. its not very uncommon though. its all very ne means to an end kind of behavior.

	14-03-2003 08:24									#58
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Does the Brit resolution call for the Sec Council to decide whether or not Saddam met its conditions? If not the Bush administration can spin anything Saddam does into non-compliance and claim UN approval.

	14-03-2003 08:24									#59
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They're not defending Hussein. They're exposing the Emperor's new clothes. There's a difference. We'd all like to see Hussein go. It's just that some of us don't think the price should be paid in thousands of Iraqi lives.

Others, like me, are unabashed anti-imperialists, and see no good coming of the US's ability to start wars at its pleasure.

	14-03-2003 08:25									#60
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u know IMO that entire damn region needs to stop it w/ this religious fundamentalism and ethnic hatred. I feel no need to cater to the idea that is basically "segregation."

they have an irrational long standing and ingrained hatred of each other that is going to have to dissappear to continue to grow as a culture. the best option is not segregation, with separate drinking fountains, backs of buses and separate countries.