16-03-2003 01:16									#31
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In order to balance out all the Amerindian team names I propose that the Atlanta Braves take the name of the former minor league team the Atlanta Crackers. And I bet the whites down here wouldn't mind either .

	16-03-2003 03:37									#32
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Imran. You're walking on a thin line.

And Timex

	16-03-2003 03:44									#33
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Fine. My coronation is complete.

	16-03-2003 04:40									#34
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so does that mean if all the gays died off i could call somebody a fag without fear of someone butting into my business?

Only if when all the women die off you can call someone a "*****" without fear of someone butting into your business.

	16-03-2003 06:47									#35
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX a term is only pejorative if the person is offended by it. the world should grow the f*ck up and stop being so deeply offended by words.

Yes, and let's scrap those self-evidently redundant libel and slander laws....

How did Shakespeare put it?

"Who steals my purse steals trash; ’t is something, nothing;
’T was mine, ’t is his, and has been slave to thousands;
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him
And makes me poor indeed."

from Othello.

Are you white by any chance, UberKrux?

	16-03-2003 06:53									#36
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The whole thing is lefty political correctness run a muck. If someone wants to name their team the Fighting Irish, the Spatans, the Highlanders, or (gasp!!!) the Braves then they should be allowed and the white whiners (for almost all of them are rich white lefties from the burbs) should just shut up and let them.

	16-03-2003 09:27									#37
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So the fact that almost all of the people opposing the name changes are white and the people behind removing them are Indians is just an inconvenient fact for you, huh? In almost every single case where someone has been protesting the name of a sports team, it was started and led by Indians. If some white people support them, that's a good thing.

The Fighting Irish were so named by an Irish school, a school which is a symbol of Irish pride. They took an insult and made it a thing of pride. That's their thing. If Indians don't want whites to be portraying them with savage charicatures all over the place, then we should respect that. We've taken everything else, we could at least give them back their pride.

	16-03-2003 13:46									#38
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only Boris would say Indian is bad.

Come on! That is just what they were called by Columbus. Whoops I forgot he was responisble for the deaths of millions of native americans .

They were never used in a negative context. Only when they were called Injuns would it be considered negative. or redskins would be considered negative.

I think chiefs would be a sign of respect. Same with Braves. We are honouring their bravery. Why can't they see it that way.

In any case American Football is very traditionalist. I don't think they will ever force the Redskins to change their name. Eventually it will come to terms. So far not too many people are protesting it. I can't wait until it really gets bloody and dirty . These protestors are a violent bunch. But I am certain the redskins owner will never give in.

Although the NFL could force them to. I didn't think of that. I never thought the NFL would cave to such PC'ness. But they caved to Al Sharpton just last years. So who knows.

	16-03-2003 19:53									#39
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Yeah, only I would see it as a bad thing, even though the Native Americans are out protesting about.

Ya know, the denial that goes on about this is pretty ridiculous. If the very group you think you are "honouring" tells you that it isn't an honor and is, in fact, insulting to them, what will it take for you to get the ****ing hint?

	16-03-2003 22:44									#40
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara And he dances around like a goon dressed up like a Souix, not an Illini (not that we know how the Illini looked, since the Pottowattami wiped them out at Starved Rock two centuries before whites began settling the area). Yeah, such respect. When the people you charicature tell you you are being insulting, take their word on it instead of telling them that you're being "respectful."

If the Illini are all dead (after having been exterminated by their fellow Indians) who is going to be offended? It's the same deal as with the Trojans.

	16-03-2003 22:59									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Felch X If the Illini are all dead (after having been exterminated by their fellow Indians) who is going to be offended?

Other Indians. If the Fighting Whiteys used Klansman and Nazi stormtroopers as their school mascotts, I'd bet white folks would be more upset than amused.

	16-03-2003 23:05									#42
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well I say its an honour to their names, and that's all that is important

We can't go through life not offending anyone. This is the problem with liberals. They try to do this.

	16-03-2003 23:09									#43
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I'll make a statement her, that's bound to encourage discussion.

In the beginning, the KKK was aimed at carpet-bagging Yankees as much as Blacks.
It served a purpose, similar to labor unions.

	16-03-2003 23:23									#44
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand In the beginning, the KKK was aimed at carpet-bagging Yankees as much as Blacks. It served a purpose, similar to labor unions.

It's purpose was terrorism Furthermore, as a carpet-bagger myself, I can't say it makes me like them any more (course I already knew this).

Dissident, it's true you can't go through life not offending anyone. On the other hand, you don't have to go out of your way to offend people either.

	16-03-2003 23:30									#45
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Of course, if reconstruction had gone as Lincoln intended, none of it would have happened.

	17-03-2003 04:52									#46
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Natives are going overboard at a nearby university, the University of North Dakota, who are called the "Fighting Souix." They say that the fighting part of the name reinforces stereotypes of plains natives as bloodthirsty warriors. They say the name should be Dakota, not Souix, because Souix was what the French called them and that they should be called by what they call themselves. Finally, they make a fit because the fans of the opponents say the rhyme "Souix Suck!" This is rediculous. I don't complain about the name "Viking", I wish the natives would take a chill pill.

	17-03-2003 04:55									#47
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Awwwww, just grant them rights to run a bingo hall; they'll be fine.

	17-03-2003 05:08									#48
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While there are some Indians who care a lot about this, the vast majority do not. I went to Broken Bow Oklahoma for a family reunion a few years back. It's an interesting town, because though you can nominally break the population down into more or less Indians, Blacks and Whites, everyone looks like they they are part Indian, and they of course are. The local High School's name for their sports teams? The Broken Bow Savages.

The bottom line is that most of these names are not inherently insulting. One has to be taught to be insulted by them. But there is another way to triumph over a less than stellar label, and that is to redefine it, take ownership of it. IMO it is much more preferable to take symbols from those who abuse them and make them your own, rather than surrendering those symbols to Nazis, Klansmen and the like. Fvck them, they don't deserve to live on through our symbols.

	17-03-2003 05:25									#49
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quote: quote: Originally posted by Felch X If the Illini are all dead (after having been exterminated by their fellow Indians) who is going to be offended? Originally posted by chegitz guevara Other Indians. If the Fighting Whiteys used Klansman and Nazi stormtroopers as their school mascotts, I'd bet white folks would be more upset than amused.

So I should be offended by the name fighting irish even though I'm of german descent?

	17-03-2003 05:39									#50
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H Tower. That doesn't even make sense to me.

I agree with losing the Fighting Irish tag.
Drunken Irish is much better.

	17-03-2003 05:44									#51
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he was talking about other indian tribes being mad about University of Illinois using the name Fighting Illini. Why do the Souix care?

	19-03-2003 02:05									#52
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because Trojans sounds cool.
there is one football(handmelon, not soccer) team named Trojans even here in Finland.

	19-03-2003 02:45									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Andemagne because Trojans sounds cool. there is one football(handmelon, not soccer) team named Trojans even here in Finland.

My High School basketball is the Spartans. A few wins ago we played the Barnsville Trojans. We mocked them by using info of the Trojan war. (The spartans are the ones who built the Trojan Horse.)

	19-03-2003 03:37									#54
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara And he dances around like a goon dressed up like a Souix, not an Illini (not that we know how the Illini looked, since the Pottowattami wiped them out at Starved Rock two centuries before whites began settling the area). Yeah, such respect. When the people you charicature tell you you are being insulting, take their word on it instead of telling them that you're being "respectful."

Typical liberal--*****ing about the mascot of Illinois while he ignores that of his OWN state, the Florida Seminoles and their idiotic 'tomahawk chop'

	19-03-2003 03:48									#55
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quote: Originally posted by HolyWarrior Typical liberal--*****ing about the mascot of Illinois while he ignores that of his OWN state, the Florida Seminoles and their idiotic 'tomahawk chop'

Typical conservative--trying to destract from the point by bringing up something that che doesn't necessarily support, either. Can you say, straw man?

Notice how che's saying that was in response to another poster who brought up the Illini specifically as an instance...

	19-03-2003 04:49									#56
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quote: Originally posted by HolyWarrior Typical liberal--*****ing about the mascot of Illinois while he ignores that of his OWN state, the Florida Seminoles and their idiotic 'tomahawk chop'

actually che is from Illinois orginally so he just might have some feelings about what goes on in illinois

	19-03-2003 06:29									#57
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Personally, I think names like the Illini and Seminoles aren't inherently bad. On the other hand, Braves, Redskins, Chiefs, etc., are derrogatory names for Indians, and I can completely understand Indians not wanting us to use them. We say it's a symbol of our respect, but they remember when white folks said those things to them out of disrespect. What it comes down to, however, is what people want to be called and whether or not they have a say in their own image. Either you respect people's rights or you're an *******.

	19-03-2003 06:37									#58
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quote: Originally posted by H Tower So I should be offended by the name fighting irish even though I'm of german descent?

Maybe if people's images of Germans was based on what people thought of Irish, yeah. As I said, you have a mascot who is supposedly a woodland Indian dressed as a plaines Souix (among others). Most white folks don't know Mohawk from Cherokee from Geronimo. If there was genuine respect intended on the part of U of I, they'd have done a modicum of research to try and find out how an Illini might have looked.

	19-03-2003 06:46									#59
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How are Braves offensive?

Is bravery that bad?

I agree about Redskins.

	19-03-2003 06:48									#60
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Why are Braves and Chiefs derogatory?
Were/are they wusses and peons?