15-03-2003 13:53									#1
	Why do schools have to give up their Indian name mascots but not ones like Trojans? Remove this text

My jr. high school name was Kenny Guinn Trojans. No one complained about them.

Sure there are no Trojans running around today, but there are decendants of Trojans.

And what about Giants. How do you think those overly large people feel about this?

And what about animal names? Surely PETA has a problem with this. They should not be allowed to use animal names. That implies violence against animals.

	15-03-2003 14:56									#2
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	15-03-2003 15:03									#3
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What about Scandinavians? Seattle's Rainier Beach High School, whose student population is primarily African American and Latino, is the home of the Fighting Vikings.

Somebody decided that it wasn't PC to have a lily-white symbol for such a diverse school, so they made the mascot darker. Now their school is represented by a swarthy Viking.

	15-03-2003 15:18									#4
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quote: Originally posted by AnnC What about Scandinavians? Seattle's Rainier Beach High School, whose student population is primarily African American and Latino, is the home of the Fighting Vikings. Somebody decided that it wasn't PC to have a lily-white symbol for such a diverse school, so they made the mascot darker. Now their school is represented by a swarthy Viking.

Read the Icelandic Sagas. They're chock full of Vikings identified as "swarthy".

	15-03-2003 15:57									#5
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Political correctness is a b1tch

	15-03-2003 15:59									#6
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whens the last time you ****ed over a trojan? actually whens the last time you ****ed with a tojan...

	15-03-2003 19:52									#7
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I've always figured if the Washington Redskins are perfectly acceptable, the New Orleans Niggers and Carolina Klansmen should be acceptable, too.

If we're going to do away with all vestiges of sensitivity, we might as well be consistent about it.

	15-03-2003 20:28									#8
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quote: Originally posted by DetroitDave I've always figured if the Washington Redskins are perfectly acceptable, the New Orleans Niggers and Carolina Klansmen should be acceptable, too. If we're going to do away with all vestiges of sensitivity, we might as well be consistent about it.

Too True.

"Indians" is not, in general, a term Native Americans like to be called, as it is not only ethnically inaccurate, it is seen by many as a perjorative.

"Trojans" isn't offensive to anyone, as there aren't any Trojans around anymore and isn't remotely a perjorative name for anyone. Unless you're calling someone a condom.

	15-03-2003 20:39									#9
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Bite me, you Trojan!

	15-03-2003 20:50									#10
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I've always wondered about team names myself. The Romans, Germans, Goths and Huns were among the best "fighters" in ancient times. However, I cannot recall any teams named after one of these peoples. No Legionaires. No Gladiators. No Barbarians. No Huns. No Goths. No Franks or Vandals or Suebi or Alemanni or Saxons.

Instead they choose the Trojans, who lost.

The ancient Jews at least twice put up a better fight against the Romans than did the Trojans against the Greeks. Remember Masada and the Zealots? I have never seen a team named the Zealots or the fighting Jews.

Instead we get Raiders, Pirates, Buccanneers.

Even the Americans are honored: Yankees.

Ugh!

	15-03-2003 20:50									#11
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quote: "Indians" is not, in general, a term Native Americans like to be called, as it is not only ethnically inaccurate, it is seen by many as a perjorative.

I guess it depends on the context. Food for thought:

My alma mater, Eastern Michigan U, was originally called the Hurons, after an area tribe. Even though tribe members expressed no strong objection to its usage, the name was changed to Eagles(blah). I thought it was PC going overboard. Hurons was always respectfully used.

The city south of detroit where I grew up, Wyandotte, is named after the tribe of the same name. Junior High and elementary sports used the name "Indians". There is a LOT of respect for the tribe's heritage in this town in museum and landmarks, and I really don't think any insult or disparagement is intended. Change the name?

	15-03-2003 21:09									#12
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Yes all Trojan names should be replaced. Horrible things happen like having opposing schools set up posters like "Trojans burst under pressure" and other horrific condom jokes

	15-03-2003 21:12									#13
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Greeks wouldn't complain. They're egomaniacs ....

	15-03-2003 21:47									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I've always wondered about team names myself. The Romans, Germans, Goths and Huns were among the best "fighters" in ancient times. However, I cannot recall any teams named after one of these peoples. No Legionaires. No Gladiators. No Barbarians. No Huns. No Goths. No Franks or Vandals or Suebi or Alemanni or Saxons.

That does it! If I ever become the owner of an expansion team, I choose Ned to come up with the name for it. What a great selection!

The Zkribblian Barbarians, Zkribbler's Legionaires...zounds!!

	15-03-2003 22:13									#15
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quote: Originally posted by DetroitDave I guess it depends on the context. Food for thought: My alma mater, Eastern Michigan U, was originally called the Hurons, after an area tribe. Even though tribe members expressed no strong objection to its usage, the name was changed to Eagles(blah). I thought it was PC going overboard. Hurons was always respectfully used.

Why oh why oh why didn't they change it to the Emus?

I don't think tribe names are generally regarded as offensive; even "Indians" seems, in and of itself, okay. But when coupled with an abhorrent racial caricature like the Cleveland Indians, or when the nickname is a racial insult, i.e. Washington Redskins, it frightens me how much resistance there is to change.

	15-03-2003 22:24									#16
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You wouldn't believe that stink at my university over this subject. We're the fighting Illini. And our mascot and symbol for the university is Chief Illiniwek. I've always thought that the Chief is a symbol to be revered, he comes out at half time, and we all sing the alma mater together, with everyone showing respect for him. Everyone except the protestors that is

	15-03-2003 22:59									#17
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Well, this whole name thing can get silly: but somehting like Redskin does go a bit too far.

All I know is that no one would ever protest the name of the teams form my high school.. "The Peglegs". Just cause the last Dutch governor of New Amstardam had a peg leg. What a dumb name..imagine a scary looking man in 17th century dress chrging you with one wooden leg...tremble in fear!

	15-03-2003 23:18									#18
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Condom makers aren't as sensitive as Native Americans?
Just a guess.

	15-03-2003 23:22									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Too True. "Indians" is not, in general, a term Native Americans like to be called, as it is not only ethnically inaccurate, it is seen by many as a perjorative. "Trojans" isn't offensive to anyone, as there aren't any Trojans around anymore and isn't remotely a perjorative name for anyone. Unless you're calling someone a condom.

so does that mean if all the gays died off i could call somebody a fag without fear of someone butting into my business?

	15-03-2003 23:23									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov "Indians" is not, in general, a term Native Americans like to be called, as it is not only ethnically inaccurate, it is seen by many as a perjorative.

That's not really true. Many see Indian as just as correct as Native American. American is a name Europeans put on this place. The Most poltical Indian groups and newspapers still use the term Indian quite frequently. It's pretty much interchangable, since neither is really correct. Having been to quite a few pow-wows, I haven't noticed everyday folks refering to themselves mor one than the other.

	15-03-2003 23:26									#21
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As I see it from the other side of the wast atlantic this eagerness to erase native team names could be to help to erase their names from history. How PC is that? By now using native american names could as well be a form of respect as something else.

	15-03-2003 23:28									#22
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quote: Originally posted by H Tower We're the fighting Illini. And our mascot and symbol for the university is Chief Illiniwek. I've always thought that the Chief is a symbol to be revered, he comes out at half time, and we all sing the alma mater together, with everyone showing respect for him.

And he dances around like a goon dressed up like a Souix, not an Illini (not that we know how the Illini looked, since the Pottowattami wiped them out at Starved Rock two centuries before whites began settling the area). Yeah, such respect. When the people you charicature tell you you are being insulting, take their word on it instead of telling them that you're being "respectful."

	15-03-2003 23:32									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin As I see it from the other side of the wast atlantic this eagerness to erase native team names could be to help to erase their names from history. How PC is that?

The drive to stop Indians being used as mascotts was started and is still led by Indians in the US. The US demanded that Ecuador paint over the mural it has in its parliament because it has a leering skull that asys CIA on it. If we get upset about how others depict us, then w need to deal faily with those whom we depict.

	15-03-2003 23:38									#24
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX so does that mean if all the gays died off i could call somebody a fag without fear of someone butting into my business?

I think I can say without fear of being corrected that you just bought yourself a Moderator Alert over that remark.

	15-03-2003 23:39									#25
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every day is just pushing the envelope with you, isn't it Uber?

	15-03-2003 23:42									#26
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Uber seems to have selectively ignored the part about "Trojans" not being a perjorative terms so he could make a childish and false analogy.

	15-03-2003 23:44									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Uber seems to have selectively ignored the part about "Trojans" not being a perjorative terms so he could make a childish and false analogy.

a term is only pejorative if the person is offended by it.

the world should grow the f*ck up and stop being so deeply offended by words.

	16-03-2003 00:22									#28
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX the world should grow the f*ck up and stop being so deeply offended by words.

The world should grow the f*ck up and not continue insulting people just for being different.

	16-03-2003 00:43									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I've always wondered about team names myself. The Romans, Germans, Goths and Huns were among the best "fighters" in ancient times. However, I cannot recall any teams named after one of these peoples. No Legionaires. No Gladiators. No Barbarians. No Huns. No Goths. No Franks or Vandals or Suebi or Alemanni or Saxons.

Actually, the University of Idaho's nickname is the Vandals. That's about it, though.

	16-03-2003 01:10									#30
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Condom makers aren't as sensitive as Native Americans? Just a guess.

Yeah, they can take a good natured ribbing....