16-03-2003 07:31									#1
	Why does anybody play 1 x 1 deity? Remove this text

Whats really so great about 1 x 1 deity ? I dont get it

	16-03-2003 07:39									#2
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if you want a game now we could start a 3 way with deity dude, icq me if you want

	16-03-2003 08:08									#3
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i think many view it as the true civ for SP as the other levels are so easy to beat.....its just a carry over from our sp days

	16-03-2003 08:28									#4
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I have heard this argument for traditionalists before. Hell I played the greatest single player, 1 x 1 deity game with raging hordes that mankind has ever, and will ever see.
pop-300,000,000(max recorded level of civnet)
100+ advanced techs
125 citys (max limit of civ net)
entire ground of a large earth board covered, 1 worker per square
every square irrigated and railroaded all this done before cheat, rules. txt and engineers! also with the real rule for Bachs (1 cont only)
took me 400 hours of play over a year
But, there is a reason we all drive cars instead of horse and buggys ( offense indeed intended to the backward quacker bafoon element of this forem, and by the by, get thoose damn things off the Pennsylvania roads)
Its just better in so many ways even though we drove buggys for centuries and cars for merely 100 years.
So arguing that its traditional, and thats why we do it holds no water at anything, let alone civ.
Baseball use to be dominated by a midget because his strike zone was unfair. But baseball changed with the times and created minimum strike zones which did away with the midget.( no offense intended here as it is a physical thing not a lifestyle choice and I had sex with a "short girl" once in Vegas, Hi Andrea, Its Gary from San Diego if your a civ forem reader)

	16-03-2003 10:00									#5
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Well, sh!t eh?

I play 1x deity and I love it. No argument neded.

	16-03-2003 10:06									#6
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You see Strat, there are two basic approaches to civ.

You can approach it mechanistically whereby you play the math to perfection;

OR,

You can approach it in an imaginative &/or role-playing way where you live the implulses of civ.

The latter may include elements of the former but it is not the obsession. I don't want fair starts. I love luck. I'm not interseted in points. I love big meandering MP games that never has a certain winner no matter how it looks at various stages of the game to the math inclined.

	16-03-2003 10:31									#7
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the thing one needs to remember is that players play with their group of friends....if there was only one setting there would be more games out there, but with many pockets of players playing 'their' settings, the games are alot more scarce.

this forum is not much of a supporter of x2x2 king...pure and simple....whereas the zone really doesn't support x1x1 deity raging....

so were at an impasse....

as for your sp achievements, well done, all i can say is all the diehard vets have done something similar in their sp days too

	16-03-2003 11:09									#8
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The group I play with plays 2x1x Deity... it works for us

	16-03-2003 13:07									#9
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why 1x1x deity? its the game with highest challenge. to build up without care of unhappiness and irrigation is easy. but to build up a good republic in diety 1x1x is skill.

so in germany we love 1x1x deity in mp-games.
its the little difference that makes it

	16-03-2003 15:48									#10
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Lets see, war and deity made exactly no sense what so ever and offered no exact reason why 1 x 1 deity is better then 2 x 2 king .
And towards Jes, building a huge civ in 1 x 1 deity is just not a challenge. It is simply a race to happy wonders, and it is a race between turtles and not rabits. In the game we played recently, 2 hours of simultanious play and I dont even have trade yet where as in 2 x 2 king I would have ironclads already, we had one battle in the first 2 hours, a ship on ship battle. You can build citys with inpunity. the only competion is provided by the computer and these restrictions are known and NEVER change. You remove these restrictions, and on a board like we played, 2 x 2 king, you have 0 chance of beating me, nobody will unless 3 of thier first 4 huts are citys. On 1 x 1 deity, my capabilities are severly restricted so it is much, much easier for you to build a big civ. When you have to deal with me, it is by far harder because I am creative and adapt to the game. 1 x 1 deity effectively removed me from interfereing with you building a civ.
Happiness problems, despite what people posted, are VERY relivant in 2 x 2 king. The only difference is, that instead of preventing your citys from revolting, you work to keep them celebrating, and it does not matter your government, celebrating in monarchy (which I have never seen anyone else do other then me) or in fundy (again, I celebrate easily in fundy) or rep. or democracy and with this celebrations allows greater trade route payoffs, which means a tech a turn, and way more gold to buy units with and this means your capabilities are NOT restricted, they continuously expand.
AND IF IT WERE SO EASY TO PLAY 2 X 2 KING, JES, YOU WOULD HAVE A MUCH BETTER RECORDED VERSE ME THEN YOU DO!(No offense intended, just my belief that thoose that played 2 x 2 king and then went to 1 x 1 deity ONLY do so to be more competitive)

	16-03-2003 16:11									#11
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"...you have 0 chance of beating me, nobody will unless 3 of thier first 4 huts are citys..."

Wow, you must be amazing.........

	16-03-2003 17:58									#12
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"No, I am better then that!"
(can anybody name the movie that quote is from?)

	16-03-2003 18:12									#13
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quote: Originally posted by StrategicKingMi celebrating in monarchy (which I have never seen anyone else do other then me)

You should have joined our 1x1x Deity game then

(Thanks to Deity for reminding me me though )

But I agree 1x1x Deity is too much about happy wonders.
But not more then island games are about naval wonders.

	16-03-2003 22:02									#14
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Another classic... My style of play isn't condusive to those settings, so those settings and the people that play those settings must suck...

Yawn...

	17-03-2003 00:48									#15
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There is no style of play in 1 x 1 deity, thats just the point. You must go monarchy first or you will have logistical problems that eliminate any benifits gained.
You must keep units inside citys to prevent revolt.
In 2 x 2 king, you can go for republic or monarchy, you make the decision instead of the computer dictating it to you.
In 2 x 2 king You can leave citys un garrisioned as u choose, again, not the computer making you.
And yes, of course magelleons and lighthouse on island board, any move prod level are unfair. I can play with out them.
Besides, this is not about 2 x 2 king, it is why 1 x 1 deity is such a great way to play.

	17-03-2003 00:56									#16
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Blah Blah Blah Blah... yeah, there is absolutely no strategy to 1x1x... BLAH BLAH BLAH...

People do go straight to republic in 1x1x

Some People don't garrison their cities in 1x1x

It's getting really old listening to people say that there is no strategy or options in 1x1x. It's just ignorant to say so. There are horsey rushes... expansion... trade... wonder building, ALL THE SAME DAMN THINGS you crow about at 2x2x.

It's all about the strategies you use, and the settings you like to play. I personally find 1x1x to slow... but that doesn't mean that I think there is no strategy to it... or that players that do are bad players.

If all you want to play is 2x2x because you find 1x1x Deity boring... or not condusive to your playing style/strategies... thats great. But to try to belittle everybody that doesn't play by your settings is just plain silly.

	17-03-2003 02:21									#17
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1. 1x1x isnt better than 2x2x and other way round. thats my opinion. so when i argue for 1x1x its not because i think, its better than others.

2. u asked why people play 1x1x deity; i told you: its because i love the challenge, and i love the little secrets in the game. e.g. irrigation.its important when and where you irrigate. and so it is with mayn other things.

3. you said: deity and war wont come together. thats wrong. but you have to have skill to manage it. you said, deity is a race for happy-wonders. thats wrong. but if you want, we can play a game without wonders. you say you have no choice of making monarchy or republic first. but you must know, how to manage. in our game you have republic and i think, you didnt manage it right.

4. the thing i dont like 2x2x so much is, that sometimes the moves takes soooooooo long. i have many cities, my opponent too, many units, ohoh.

5. i didnt say, its easy to play 2x2x king. i ment, its easy to build up. but i think, you are more competent in 2x2x king tahn me. there are mayn things i forgot. but i would play you in 2x2x king to learn something.

6. i know you as a fair fighter, so i hope, you will be a fair when we tell us arguments. dont try to say, a seeting is better then another.
besides, i think a long time you didnt have a real opponent in 1x1x deity. now there are several, in australia and in germany too

	17-03-2003 02:47									#18
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For the same reason you keep opening stupid threads I believe...they like it.

	17-03-2003 04:13									#19
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I might be wrong but I think people play 1x1x deity because they enjoy it, I would hope that people play 2x2x king for enjoyment as well .

	17-03-2003 19:55									#20
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I think 1x1x moves a bit slow for MP games, (unless you have a dedicated group that will play 3 or 4 sessions) which is why I prefer 2x1x deity raging hoards. It allows you to build the units to go to war earlier but makes you consider defensive needs (risk vs. reward). But that's just one man's opinion.

	18-03-2003 11:18									#21
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"For the same reason you keep opening stupid threads I believe...they like it."
I seem to get alot of responses from my stupidity.
Reno Williams, The Adventure Begins was the name of the movie, remember Reno says to Kwang "Kwang, your Amazing!" and Kwang replies "NO!! I am better then that!"
I dont want to argue which is better, I just want to know why you play it.
Now Irrigation needs are a big part, Unfortunately it takes 5 turns to irrigate and thats way to slow for me and in 2 x 2 1 extra food is irrelevant. ( of course, if I wished to add this to 2 x 2 I can lower the amount of turns to irrigate and increase the benifit via rules.txt)
But again, the challenge comes from the computer not a human so I cant accept that as an argument as it is just a restriction.
As far as inter city construction, thats a good argument . How many players on 2 x 2 king build markets (other then me)? But again, the time at 1 prod is way too slow.
Maybe RAh and Ming are right, the hybread sytem of 2 x 1 deity might be a good compramise.
Invite me to the next multiplayer 2 x 1 deity game and Ill be happy to accept it.

	18-03-2003 12:33									#22
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Hmmmm... My hats off to you... I hope the opportunity presents itself. I love playing with good players.

However, while I would find it interesting... you may not.

Most of the time, we play on very small worlds... to insure early contact, and some action. The style of game you indicate you like, doesn't happen in most of our games. We very seldom get past a single session, because of the problems of getting the same people together for a continuation. And even when we do, most people know who the winner is going to be after the first session, and would rather start a new one.

Again... we play for fun... and that's the way most of us like it.

But don't take the above comments wrong... I would love to get you in one of our games. I would find it very enjoyable... win or lose... It would be a good challange, and that's all I ask for when I play.

	19-03-2003 04:11									#23
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I'm getting bored with 1x1x. Too many games end up getting abandoned without a result. Takes too long to get anywhere, long sessions where nothing much is happening. On average it takes about 10 2 hour sessions to get into the end game. Everyone has limited time to spend on civ.

Deity level shortens the number of turns in the early periods of the game so the ancient period is pretty much wasted and there is no middle age to speak of.

	19-03-2003 04:52									#24
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While Deity does indeed have different years per turn, and overall, means total less turns until the game ends because you run out of turns... what difference does it really make since games end before then anyway?

You say the ancient period is wasted, but that's all relative... you are still going through the same number of turns... who cares what the actual date the game provide is

	19-03-2003 05:13									#25
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1x1 deity is the way the game was designed to be played.On deity you actually need to have some units at home and you may actually have to build temples.As mentioned in 1x production you actually need to irigate.

I have never played in a MP game,1x or 2x,deity or whatever,that did not have war.And lots of it.If someone won't start it,I will

The biggest advantage 2x production has is that you can build almost anywhere.In 1x,hilltop,mountain,forest etc cities are not nearly as viable.So in 2x,you are not as cursed by dirt and rocks as you would be in 1x.

2x moves is an abomination.Similiar to playing golf with orange balls.Horseys move 12 on rivers and roads.Talk about long turns.Just not acceptable

	19-03-2003 05:45									#26
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all settings are fun, even 1x2x

	19-03-2003 05:54									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Ming While Deity does indeed have different years per turn, and overall, means total less turns until the game ends because you run out of turns... what difference does it really make since games end before then anyway?

That's the point - the games don't end before then, most of em run right through to the modern period before anything much happens. You get a couple of fun sessions at the start when civs are expanding and then this flat spot for 3 or 4 sessions whilst people just build up their civs. Then the end game session can be over very quick, like 10 turns.

quote: You say the ancient period is wasted, but that's all relative... you are still going through the same number of turns... who cares what the actual date the game provide is

No, you get less turns in BC. I take your point but its the early game that suffers from truncated turns. The period (or turns if you like) from about 1ad to 1600 are a real dead spot in 1x1x deity.

	19-03-2003 09:01									#28
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I have heard this "long turn " argument before and again it is non-sensical. In 2 x 2 , you get so much done every turn, more roads, more units, more trade, a tech a turn if played correctly. To duplicate this in 1 x 1 deity, you will have to play many, many turns. In the end, for the amount you get done, turns in 2 x 2 are much quicker then in 1 move.
And AH, if you want to play multiple sessions where the game leads somewhere and is constantly exciting, set up a 2 x 2 king game on a larger board with The King.

	19-03-2003 09:49									#29
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Does Elvis play?

	19-03-2003 10:26									#30
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2x2 makes for longer turns sooner if anything.Everything happens faster..correct?

Then more units.More cities.More everything=longer turns

Moving as few as 30- 4 legged units takes forever.Throw in some lag and it is a bad scene.Not just for the people waiting either.I never mind waiting but always feel guilty when its my turn to move a raft of units.