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Inverse Icarus
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flying too low to the ground
May 2001
time: 00:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
I have come to the conclusion that this war has nothing to do with terror, and everything to do with hegemonic assertion. So Sadaam has little to do with the equation, other than to provide a conveinant demon to rally the American people around. If you disagree, then I'm afraid we have simply reached an impasse my friend. |
I disagree 100% and think you've missed the boat. I believe this war has to do with US interests, but hegemonic assertion isn't it. |
exactly.
let me make an analogy that'll probably get flamed by someone.
some guy walks up to you and says, "if i had a gun, i'd blow your f*cking head off".
he then starts looking for a gun (or, developing a projectile weapon of some sort).
you'd get the f*cker arrested for assault, right? you'd call the cops and wait for them to arrest him / rectify the suitation. before he got the gun with which he threatened to shoot you.
so the cops show up but do nothing for 12 years, while this dude continues to build a gun, saying things like "i think you should check over there!", and "sorry, you can't check my garage right now, get the hell out."
he's going to get a gun and blow your f*cking head off.
so, do you let the bumbling cops keep trying? maybe your neighbors want you to. or do you do what you have to do for the interest of self preservation, and beat the guy senseless, until he dies or runs the hell away.
it's the same concept with large scale implications.
saddam has biological and chemical weapons. he's used them in the past. he's working on nukes. he's said on several occasions, if he could nuke the US he would.
he's a f*cking sh*tlord ruling a country that supports him as long as the AKs are aimed at their heads.
we'll see how the Iraqis feel after the war is over. if they still support saddam and loathe america after he is deposed, well f*ck, we tried to help the people.
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Felch X
For after the war
If America doesn't claim Iraq's oil, will the leftists who claimed it was all for oil admit that they were full of ****?
And if America does go back on its promise, will the hawk do likewise?
I think this is important. People have said a lot of things, and I'm tired of folks forgetting all the nasty horrible things they said once they were proven wrong. I remember a lot of doves were saying that Afghanistan would be a bloodbath for the Americans, and were wrong. Did they ever admit it? |
Oil is a tougher thing than bloodbaths - that's easy to quantify the results, or lack thereof.
"Taking" oil, or getting cutesy contracts for it, is so passé. Oil is a globally supplied commodity, with a fairly tight balance of supply and demand, so you don't need to "take" it physically in any way to profit enormously, or to lose your ass (or gain huge leverage on everyone else's economy among the industrialized and oil producing nations, which is most of the world). Just having the power, directly or indirectly, to tweak that supply and demand balance can have a huge effect, and is a huge amount of strategic power.
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Alex
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Brasil
Mar 1999
time: 02:26
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quote:
Originally posted by UberKruX
let me make an analogy that'll probably get flamed by someone.
some guy walks up to you and says, "if i had a gun, i'd blow your f*cking head off".
he then starts looking for a gun (or, developing a projectile weapon of some sort).
you'd get the f*cker arrested for assault, right? you'd call the cops and wait for them to arrest him / rectify the suitation. before he got the gun with which he threatened to shoot you.
so the cops show up but do nothing for 12 years, while this dude continues to build a gun, saying things like "i think you should check over there!", and "sorry, you can't check my garage right now, get the hell out."
he's going to get a gun and blow your f*cking head off.
so, do you let the bumbling cops keep trying? maybe your neighbors want you to. or do you do what you have to do for the interest of self preservation, and beat the guy senseless, until he dies or runs the hell away.
it's the same concept with large scale implications.
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Except that you gave him the gun in the first place.
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Lord Merciless
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexnm
Except that you gave him the gun in the first place. |
Bullsh1t, most Iraqi weapons are Russian-built. T72s, T62s, T54s, MIGs, etc.., they are not American stuff.
Oh yes, Iraqis had some Mirage, too. You should know who built those things.
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Inverse Icarus
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flying too low to the ground
May 2001
time: 00:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Merciless
Bullsh1t, most Iraqi weapons are Russian-built. T72s, T62s, T54s, MIGs, etc.., they are not American stuff.
Oh yes, Iraqis had some Mirage, too. You should know who built those things. |
we did give them the beginnings of a chemical weapons system, and ignored them when they used them against iran, it is a valid point.
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Lord Merciless
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
Lord Merciless, their heavy machinery, maybe, but what you don't see on CNN is the billions that was given to Saddam, as late as 1989. He invaded Kuwait with US weapons and ammo. And we gave him the money with which to buy his Soviet equipment. |
What US weapons was Saddam using when he invaded Kuwait? Could you name any?
Yes, we did give him billions, by buying his oil. Did we give him weapons directly? I doubt it.
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Lord Merciless
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quote:
Originally posted by UberKruX
we did give them the beginnings of a chemical weapons system, and ignored them when they used them against iran, it is a valid point. |
Then it's more compelling to undo the mistakes we had done.
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Comrade Tassadar
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quote:
alright, just go back to russia and shut up now. if you really love russia so much, and hate america with enough passion to compare it to a tolitarian regime bent on genocide, we don't really want you here. thank you. |
I love this country enough to care. I love Russia enough to care.
Too bad they are both going down the tubes 
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Even though Uber seems to like our mentally-handicapped, evil president; he does make a good point. Despite objecting to the war, I still support our troops. They're the home team. And if you don't want to root for the home team, then get the hell out. |
Whoa sava, back off. I support our troops, I support the fair and democratic UNITED STATES OF AMERIcA. I want out troops to come back home to their families instead of being captured and tortured, killed, or having to make the decision of pissing off the military or killing innocent civilians. I don't believe our troops actually want to kill people, they want to "defend" what they believe is just (or are being forced to defend it.).
However, that does not excuse the actions of America. What they are doing has chilling similarities to both the former Nazi regieme in Germany and the former Stalinist regieme in my home country (Trust me, I've seen it. I can tell when its beginning to break out).
Sava, you of all people I would expect to understand that blindly rooting for the home team can mean suicide. If I were to do it, I'd be cheering Stalin on and hoping Russia goes all over the world to kill non-pure Russians.
What Nazi Germany did was evil. What Stalinist Russia did was evil. And what America is doing now is evil. I support our troops, but I dont support the government.
Enough said.
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I'm probably the biggest Bush-hater around, |
Not quite.......
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but I've also got two buddies in the Marines. |
1 in the marines, 1 in the army, and 2 in the navy.
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when we start systematically killing the Iraqi people for no reason, come back and yell at me |
Maybe not systematically, but we can prevent it.....And still have regieme change.
And I never will. The Taliban was an evil regieme as well and I'm glad they were removed from power.
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People who usually make such stupid comparisons have no idea what Nazi Germany was like. |
Ok, I may not know what Nazi-Germany was like (because I didnt live there) but trust me, I know what muderous regiemes are like. Probably moreso than you do. Your not one to be lecturing ME on it 
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Tass never said that he hated Americans, |
No I didnt, and I dont. I'm disappointed, but I don't hate them.
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he implied that he could no longer support the actions of his country, |
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bashing the president, bashing Republicans, being against war... and being anti-American. |
The swastika is a hindu symbol for spiritual purity. That symbolism is a good one. The german version of it is for the death of "unpure ones" (Jews). Thats bad.
The symbolism of the American flag is one of freedom and democracy. Thats good. But it also symbolizes the nation and its actions, and trust me....It is one murderous country.
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but the whole "America SuckS!!" thing gets old real quick. |
Yes. But seeing on the news how America continues to defy the rest of the world, more civil liberties weakened, etc....That gets old real quick as well. But it never stops. It probably wont stop for another 6 years.
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If Tass gave a reasoned argument, people would have no problem. Instead he talks **** about our country every chance he gets, |
 I've stated numerous times I love this country. But its fallen so low it disgusts me to no end.
Yep. Though as of late Russias actions have been a bit.....er.....
Not the American people. they've been brainwashed. But your government......
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trolls, trolls, trolls. |
When in Rome.......
So let me clarify one more time to prevent from getting flamed again: I LOVE AMERICA!!! **== It is one of the greatest nations on Earth. Or at least it WAS. Now we have a truely evil regieme in power and the American people have become brainwashed sheep.
THIS DOESNT MEAN I HATE AMERICANS. THIS DOESNT MEAN I HATE OUR TROOPS. But it does mean I hate our government. They've destroyed our image, and have gone against everything America stands for. And that is why I "bash this country" so much.
Once a democrat is in power (or a better republican), you'll see me praise the country more and bash is less.
Edit: Is it just me, or did sava just troll me? 
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18-03-2003 08:05
ahhh I know Mingy... I'm not insulting anyone. please don't ban me!
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