18-03-2003 22:02									#1
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Apparently they've said that they'll help us beat the crap out of Iraq if Saddam uses WMD...

Is this a u-turn, or consistent of a country coming to the aid of its allies in their time of need?

	18-03-2003 22:04									#2
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"time of need"?

	18-03-2003 22:04									#3
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I never heard the French say anyting about what they would do once war begun: hence how could they do a U-turn?

	18-03-2003 22:07									#4
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Consistent with Chirac dreaming to be a new De Gaulle. Despite all the barking he did, De Gaulle immediately backed the US at the beginning of the Cuba crisis, when everybody feared the nuclear armageddon.
Chirac is doing approx. the same. He also tries to show everybody how noble-hearted he is

He tried to save peace, but should our eternal allies become viciously attacked, we will do everything in our power to help them At least, that's the image he would like to give in history books.

This post was completely biased because I can't stand the very guy who is dramatically reducing human rights and welfare in my country.

	18-03-2003 22:07									#5
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quote: Originally posted by GePap I never heard the French say anyting about what they would do once war begun: hence how could they do a U-turn?

The radio called it a u-turn, personally I think it is consistent with their policy.

Also they might be pre-empting any use of WMD by Saddam.

	18-03-2003 22:09									#6
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link

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast...cals/index.html

	18-03-2003 22:11									#7
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quote: Apparently they've said that they'll help us beat the crap out of Iraq if Saddam uses WMD...

They'll help

What are they going to do? Surrender?

Oh, wait by making such a turn they already have! How's that for diplomacy?

	18-03-2003 22:16									#8
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Laughable.
The French play their games, then try to jump onboard after Bush says "Screw you. We'll do it without your ass".
The French can stay home.

	18-03-2003 22:16									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I can't stand the very guy who is dramatically reducing human rights and welfare in my country.

WTF? Is he reintroducing the use of torture or something?

	18-03-2003 22:20									#10
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technically, The French tried to help the US to save them from going to a dangerous and useless war.

	18-03-2003 22:28									#11
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Not surprised. We know that France had vested interests in an Iraq under Kuwait. Now it has thrown it's rattle out of it's pram and not gotten away with it (let's face it, France has not been the paradigm of doing the right thing in this whole crisis, they have had lots to lose from the loss of the present Iraqi regime, same with Russia and it's arms industry). France has to claw back something, it's only way is to try and share in the spoils of war now and get some share when Iraq is carved up between the imperialist aggressors.

Again, another example of Iraq, like so many small nations, being a plaything of the ravenous west...

	18-03-2003 22:30									#12
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Right. Harrison. It's the West. Hussein had notta do do with it.

	18-03-2003 22:47									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Felch X WTF? Is he reintroducing the use of torture or something?

Domestic security policy where the cops use rubber bullets more widely, a paranoid climate in which cops feel they can use gratuitous violence, forbidden to boo la Marseillaise, electoral reform which effectively bars small parties of European and Regional elections for the sake of the monolithic Chirac's party.
Pending destruction of the free healthcare for the poorest, people have to work longer before retirement, massive reductions of public servant's amounts, end of the 35-hours workweek (but the workers keep the flaws), tax cuts for the richest etc.
Edit : I forgot : 13 year-olds now qualify for jail (France is the only European country accused of torture within jails, along with Turkey)

Chirac and his right-winged government has a policy extremely harmful for the French people, and respects every demand exerted by the businesses.
To avoid being too unpopular, Chirac uses anything he finds to hide the ugliness his government decides : first it was domestic security, then it was road-security, now it is war in Iraq, and I suppose he already knows what next.
It works : despite all his assaults against the people's interests, his role in the Iraq crisis gave him more popularity than he ever had.

Chirac is by far the worst and most opportunistic President the 5th Republic ever had.

	18-03-2003 22:49									#14
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Right. Harrison. It's the West. Hussein had notta do do with it.

I don't like Hussein but that is academic - the west doesn't care about how bloody a dictator is as long as they can do the right kind of business with him - under their terms...

	18-03-2003 22:52									#15
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They've been against an offensive war because they don't believe that Saddam has WoMD. If they're wrong, they will, of course, support you.

I fail to see this 'U-turn' you're talking about. People of the United States, what kind of crap they are broadcasting to you?

	18-03-2003 22:52									#16
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quote: massive reductions of public servant's amounts

Really? At last! I like that.

But unfortunately not confirmed by the figures.

	18-03-2003 22:53									#17
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IF Saddam uses some nasty stuff AND the US seems to be in big trouble, not being able to control the situation and taking heavy losses, I mean heavy losses, I bet there are lots of countries that come right in to give Saddam a beating. At least the NATO countries.. but that's if all these things happen. Even if Saddam would use some nasty weapons, I think it would take the US balance off just for a little moment, and his famous troops can't build up with the momentum to take the surprise initiative and deliver series of devastating strikes and attacks... It will be condemned by the rest of the world and they get behind US with this, but unless they are getting a beating, they won't help that much. Maybe NATO countries would help sooner though..

	18-03-2003 22:54									#18
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They could just be trying to heal the rift that was made.

	18-03-2003 23:15									#19
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They could just be trying to heal the rift that was made.

Nah, that's a next week task.

They probably just got some intel that Hussein was passing out chem shells.

	18-03-2003 23:20									#20
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT Really? At last! I like that. But unfortunately not confirmed by the figures.

As it is impossible to fire ste-emplyed public servants in France, there are two attempts to reduce the number of public servants : not replacing those who go to retirement, and putiing more than 100,000 state's public servants to become local public servants, who are fireable.

So go our teachers, doctors, nurses, equipment workers (roads), and so go the associated services down the toilet

But that's not bad : we barked in the UN ! We made the US look laughable ! Yay ! Long life to Chirac !


DanS :
Couldn't agree more.

	18-03-2003 23:23									#21
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quote: I don't like Hussein but that is academic - the west doesn't care about how bloody a dictator is as long as they can do the right kind of business with him - under their terms...

Spot on

	18-03-2003 23:24									#22
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Right now the French are diplomatically nowhere having failed to exert an influence on stopping war. Chirac can't afford to be seen to let France sit on the sidelines or his domestic voters will get restless and think he is not asserting France's place in the world.

This is simply a step to getting back centre stage now the UN bit of the play is over.

	18-03-2003 23:24									#23
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Wow.

The French really need a new leader, this guy is a joke.

	18-03-2003 23:27									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Tuomerehu They've been against an offensive war because they don't believe that Saddam has WoMD. If they're wrong, they will, of course, support you. I fail to see this 'U-turn' you're talking about.

/agree

	18-03-2003 23:35									#25
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Spiffor, as you said there are attempts, BUT the first results of these attempts will not be seen before long. FYI, the number of civil servants has ceaselessly increased since 1981, and this is one of the reasons why taxes and social charges amount to 55% of the PNB.

What would be the right proportion? 75% or 95%?

	18-03-2003 23:35									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi The French really need a new leader, this guy is a joke.

Unfortunately, almost the whole right-wing is under the domination of his monolithic party, with the exception of Le Pen's far right and a small center-right party struggling ofr its survival. The big left-wing party is en route to split, and hasn't found any valuable leader now, and the Greens / Communists aren't any influent.

Chirac and his cronies is alone now, and might not have serious opposition in the next elections in 2007, if the left doesn't resurrect.

	18-03-2003 23:37									#27
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT Spiffor, as you said there are attempts, BUT the first results of these attempts will not be seen before long. FYI, the number of civil servants has ceaselessly increased since 1981, and this is one of the reasons why taxes and social charges amount to 55% of the PNB. What would be the right proportion? 75% or 95%?

99%
btw, where did you get the 55% figure ? I thought it was 40% ?

	18-03-2003 23:38									#28
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What happened to the Socialist Party? Not so long ago they held a majority in the National Assembly...

	18-03-2003 23:39									#29
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Chirac defied the US as a token gesture against the war, then rode the public opinion until he knew it was over.

suck on it froggies.

	18-03-2003 23:43									#30
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40%: pre-mitterrandesque figure.

Every year I have the temptation to offer a deal to the tax collector : I give you all my income, and you take care of all my needs. Is this communist enough for you?