22-03-2003 02:59									#1
	How long would a libertarian society survive, and what would kill it? Enter the AD-FREE zone

A thread with the word 'libertarian' in the title, hooray! You can almost hear the search bar diminishing.

But anyway, one of my main beefs with the whole libertarian thing is that it sounds so... unstable. It proposes some pretty darn major reforms that would, at least temporarily, pull the rug under a lot of people. Combine that with general gutting of state powers and you have a recipe for a revolution right there, with the future government most likely decidedly unlibertarian and statist, and certainly unlikely to hear about one's interesting treatises on non-coercion principle.

So, let's say that libertarians succeed and make the government. (In America, of course, considering that outside of Costa Rica, America's the only country where you need to take the socks off to count the number of libertarians.) We're talking presidency and bulletproof majorities in Senate and House here. America's loopy election system means that a candidate could theoretically win a three-person race with 15-17% of the vote. Senate and House would be tougher, but manageable with stealth tactics, some luck, not to mention a pinch of general insanity. Let's throw in majority of Supreme Court vacant and filled with libertarian-minded judges, as well. They begin to work to implement, say, the Libertarian Party platform.

How long until the government falls and what kills it?

I'm saying 6 months and it'll fall to a communist revolution.

	22-03-2003 03:17									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

If they would really implement it all, and won't compromise, I say 13 months, communist revolution.

Good poll, stefu.

	22-03-2003 03:17									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

it would never come to power. the majority would be against it. only a libertarian coup and dictatorship () would bring them to power

	22-03-2003 03:20									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Communist revolutions? what about the pentagon? I think the US military would revolt considering that they would be forced to completely disband in a libertarian society... and they would have all the manpower and weapons


thanks

	22-03-2003 03:22									#5
	Suffering from ads?

It wouldn't work. There's no way any Libertarians would be able to stay in office after the drastic effects of their "reforms". The only real Libertarian society would take place in some newly settled region. Perhaps if we discover a life-sustaining planet. Some new settlers could eventually create some sort of Libertarian society. Although, as society grew, the problems would be too great for a lack of government to handle. Such governments only work for small numbers of people in vast open country.

	22-03-2003 03:27									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Oh, and Albert is kinda right about your MoD.

	22-03-2003 03:27									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

First of all, it would not come into being: elderly are a huge voting block, and any system that told them "sorry grandma, didn't save your money? Goddbye!" would loose.

If by freak chance it won, most likely, it would not be libertarian for long, just as "anti-gov" republicans somehow end up inflating budget deficits and such. But even if its leaders remained Liebrtarians, by next lection time they would probably be out.

	22-03-2003 03:31									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

MoD?

	22-03-2003 03:32									#9
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I give them two months, and a subsequent commie revolution.

	22-03-2003 03:35									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

two months? no way. way too soon.

MoD: Ministry of Defence = DoD = Pentagon.

	22-03-2003 03:43									#11
	Tired of ads?

Not having a system to rail against except their own, I think these so-called individualists would quickly be at each other's throats.

Six months tops.

	22-03-2003 03:48									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Three hours. People like David Floyd would bring it down real quick...

	22-03-2003 03:51									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

There would be no communist revolution simply because the communists in the US are not organized enough nor significant enough to take over.

If the military doesn't coup then there would be generally anarchy... all the poor would start going crazy on each other and anyone... they would not be united enough to establish communism.

	22-03-2003 03:52									#14
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

It bring so much joy to my heart to see all the apolyton coming together to fight the scourge of Libertarianism.

	22-03-2003 04:38									#15
	Support Apolyton

The society would collapse because they'd spend all of their time worshiping in the Church of Ayn Rand...

	22-03-2003 05:24									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

it would never happen in any current nation. But in a hostile region (as in hostile to human life) such as the open sea, under the sea or outer space such a system might survive for quite some time. Why, because if you don't keep the payments up you die of starvation/suffocation/radiation or any number of ways.

Of course if nanotechnolgy (look it up, works similar to to Star Trek repilcators but on a sound technological princle) lives up to its expectations then everybody will have the means of production in their hands......and then won't things get interesting!

Basically what I'm saying is a libertarian society is something that might exist in the future (like a democratic communist society and so forth..)

Something which I hope I explored on my site (ahem) http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/comgalaxy/index.html

Sorry but shameless self promotion is part of libertarian society, like the net......hmmm

	22-03-2003 06:23									#17
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Most people are scared of freedom, dependency is a hard habit to break. You guys seem to revel in this, I think it's sad.

	22-03-2003 06:24									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

it would last forever

	22-03-2003 06:35									#19
	Inflate your Upload Space

It would fall in two months into general anarchy. The lack of government will be almost immediately overwhelmed by the use of violence made by individuals / mobs. Its likely outcome would be a temporary form of feudalmism where strong mob leaders / warlords would hold power over a chunk of territory.
The former military will probably end the chaos hereafter, and install a military rule. There is a chance this leads to the restoration of the current system, if the military leaders still believe in it.

	22-03-2003 06:38									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Obviously Saddam Hussein is a libertarian..

Just look how hard he has worked to insure that he has 100% freedom to do anything he wants in his country....

	22-03-2003 06:49									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It'd probably last for quite a while, long enough for the original founders to die off at least. The country would have become a polluted, feudal, starved wasteland by then of course.

	22-03-2003 06:53									#22
	Inflate your Upload Space

I don't get it :
with what forces (and funded with what taxes) a libertarian government would prevent crimes, mass banditism, coups or foreign invasions ?

	22-03-2003 07:03									#23
	Increase Your PM Length

I think that they accept the need for some small level of taxation. A sales tax I think.

Their solution to everything else involves armed citizenry, or so I believe.

	22-03-2003 07:11									#24
	Increase Your PM Length

Armed citizenry with nearly no police or military to monitor the groups who get loose ? I fail to see how this could end up in any other way than complete anarchy.
Maybe that could end up in a civil war, if some factions have the time to be made before the chaos puts communication ways offline.

	22-03-2003 07:31									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: I fail to see how this could end up in any other way than complete anarchy.

Me too.

	22-03-2003 09:29									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Libertarians don't know what the real world is. They need to quit reading an economics textbook and get out of their fantasy world. Face it, Libertarians are wackos.

Libertarianism = Anarchy = Mob rule = Exploitation

	22-03-2003 10:31									#27
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The advocates of legalised theft complain about mob rule? Were you guys going to actually risk your own necks stealing from others or rely on the mob to do it for you?

The premise behind most of the posts here is that libertarianism cannot survive because the majority won't behave like libertarians. Gee, I'll join you out on that limb. In other words, no sh!t.

But I have learned Saddam is a libertarian because Gepap thinks freedom is practiced by autocratic murderers.

	22-03-2003 10:41									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Most people are scared of freedom, dependency is a hard habit to break. You guys seem to revel in this, I think it's sad.

just like most commiephobes are afraid of public domain.

	22-03-2003 12:27									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

So, Berzerker, what you're saying here is the libertarianism doesn't work in real world.

And that's all that's needed to know here, really.

	22-03-2003 12:32									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Three little words: Articles of Confederation. Lasted a couple of years if I remember. Then the states realized they were powerless on their own...