22-03-2003 11:24									#1
	Turn 79, 1050 BC Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

To be edited by the leaders of the Scholia.

Status:
- Researching Republic at 100%, ready in 6 turns.
- 317 gold cash, +0 gpt (thanks to our 5gpt from ND).

Urgent questions:
- Where do we send our new settler?
- What do we name our new southern city?

Military:
- Southern settler founds (name, please?)
- New settler in EotS moves (where?)

Economy:
- EotS finishes a settler and starts a worker. Needs to work three FPs, an irrigated fur, and the fur we're mining.
- Cyclone finishes worker, starts settler. Needs to work the irrigated game, its mined wheat, and two mined grasslands with shield.
- Tempest should be finished with worker, starts courthouse (prebuild for aqueduct). (Is this the right timing to switch from building workers?)
- New city in the far south starts courthouse? (Does that sound best, or should we do something else?)
- New worker from Tempest moves 8-9-8.
- Worker on iron tile starts mining.
- Other worker by Hurricane finishes irrigation, moves 9.
- New worker from Cyclone moves 2-1-2.


Diplomacy:


Thread library:
- Standing orders for workers

	22-03-2003 11:39									#2
	Re: Turn 79, 1050 BC Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by nbarclay - New city in the far south starts courthouse? (Does that sound best, or should we do something else?)

Knee jerk answer, yes. Anything that improves productivity should be a priority. If corruption is large, which I think it is from the testing I did, then a courthouse now could be good.

I am a bit out of date on current planning though.

	22-03-2003 13:56									#3
	Re: Turn 79, 1050 BC Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by nbarclay - Southern settler founds (name, please?)

Cloudburst?

quote: - New settler in EotS moves (where?)

FP's uninformed opinion:


PS> I uploaded this pic to Apolyton webspace - if this presents a security issue I can remove it.

	22-03-2003 15:56									#4
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No risk as long as noone knows the file's name.
I like both sites. However, I think we promised to Vox that we would not settle directly adjacent to the iron mountain, so we would have to take the site 777 (Hey! It's a sign of luck!) from Arashi, right between the two red circles on your map.

	22-03-2003 17:33									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber I like both sites. However, I think we promised to Vox that we would not settle directly adjacent to the iron mountain,

Did we ?

I'm not that sure about that one. Both look ok to me.

	22-03-2003 17:44									#6
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I'm 99% sure. Nathan can confirm or deny this, as he's been most involved in the negotiations with Vox regarding the border treaty.

	22-03-2003 17:48									#7
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If we promised not to settle next to the Iron mountain then we have to abide by that. However, the sites I marked will let us get 2 cities out of that space, rather than one.

	22-03-2003 17:51									#8
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I think the Settler should found a Desert of Tears city. It will open up 2 more FP's for use (one by it, and another that Arashi can share), along with another Plains tile for Hurricane. It's also going to be the best site left corruption-wise.

Either 66 from Arashi or 633. Probably 633 as we won't have the road ready to 66 in time, and it lessens corruption a bit (not sure if it makes a difference at this point though).

Not sure, but I think it's the only way we can still hit our turn 82 target for Republic. The sooner we get into a Republic the better. (we get to hold it from Lego till turn 84 right?)

------------------

This is the best timing for Tempest to switch to the Aquaduct prebuild. Tempest will hit size 7 (when adding Workers becomes much more valuable) the turn our GA starts. We still have to cash rush a good chunk of the Aquaduct the turn before, but we should be alright as far as numbers of Workers to have the tiles improved and then pop boom to size 12 within a turn or two of the Pyramids being finished and our GA starting.

	22-03-2003 18:21									#9
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The southernmost city has a few pretty good options.

More Workers down there could be useful. Because it is our highest corruption site so far, having it smaller in size while helping to pump up the size of other cities works well.

A Courthouse will help corruption, but at this point it's mostly distance corruption there. It will pay off pretty quickly once it is built, but we miss out on most of the GA advantages we could gain from that city. Aquaduct and a Harbor both have the same problem.

If we really want to hit Vox, some reg Spears or even Warriors there could even be a good idea. Attack units need to be veterans, as do the defense on our stacks, but our 'mountain' defenses can just as easily be regulars... they stop sea landings just as well... and who in their right mind attacks Spears (regular or not) on Mountains when there are other targets?

A Galley on our east coast would be nice. Hurricane is still rather exposed, and getting a Galley 2 or 3 turns up the coast for warning purposes would give us enough time to react. Our Warrior up there doesn't give us enough warning IMO. Just think how Vox sending those 2 Immortals down to our Iron would have affected us.

I'd lean towards a Galley and Workers. The shields down there are more valuable being worked by the other cities, but won't all be used for a bit yet. We should be able to grow to size 2-3 there before the Galley finishes, and then can just hover while building Workers.

	23-03-2003 17:34									#10
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I was updating my scenario when I noticed I'm using slightly different turn numbering. 1050BC I have as turn 78 because of a messup with setting the years per turn. I think this means the earliest we can finish the Republic is turn 83, but not sure.

	23-03-2003 20:04									#11
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Looking at it, I think we get the Republic on turn 84 if we found our next city in the desert. Turn 85 otherwise. It's really close, do we have our actual beaker count into the Republic so far?

	23-03-2003 22:09									#12
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I hope this puts an end to the debate- here's the ratified border map (emailed by Nathan on Feb the 3rd):



Next to the Iron it is.

Last edited by zeit on 23-03-2003 at 22:17

	23-03-2003 22:35									#13
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Oh - cool. My memory betrays me yet again.
Anyway, are we going to take the site near the iron, or the one 11 of the iron city, or the next desert city, as Aeson suggests?

	24-03-2003 02:53									#14
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I think we better grab that iron while the grabbings good. There are boats out there.

	24-03-2003 03:02									#15
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zeit: Thanks for digging up the Treaty screenshot, that clears things up nicely.


Settling next to the Iron gets my vote.

	24-03-2003 03:04									#16
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However, if I read one of Aeson's posts right and the Desert city he proposes is the only way we can research Republic in time we should probably go for that.

Descisions, decisions....

	24-03-2003 03:19									#17
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Iron city, as the next Settler can get to the desert city quickly. (Not quite sure I understand Aeson's post re Republic)

	24-03-2003 06:09									#18
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Does anyone have any idea how the desert city would affect corruption elsewhere? Especially at 8-8-9 from EotS (6-3-3 from Arashi), which is probably the best location for it in terms of pre-railroad productivity, it will be one of our closest cities to the capital, which means it will knock some better-developed cities down a notch on the corruption ladder. By the way, we do have enough cities we could start a Forbidden Palace now. (I got the message a turn or two back but forgot to include it in the turn report.)

	24-03-2003 06:11									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus Iron city, as the next Settler can get to the desert city quickly. (Not quite sure I understand Aeson's post re Republic)

Aeson is thinking that we'll need the extra gold from the new city working a roaded river tile to speed our way to Republic.

	24-03-2003 06:17									#20
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Score information:

150 (+2) Gathering Storm
158 (+3) Demogyptica
130 (+3) Glory of War
164 (+3) Role Play
114 (+2) Vox Controli
167 (+2) Legoland

	24-03-2003 06:22									#21
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All this is just a best guess until I know our exact beakers into the Republic, but I think we are ~4 commerce off of making the jump up a turn in our research before the Republic is finished by building the Iron city first.

We get to the desert site sooner and have use of a river tile. We also have less corruption. It's going to mean about 10 commerce difference by the time we research the Republic. Overall it probably means about 1/3rd pop point (using FP's until the city would be founded the other way around), a turn of Republic vs Despotism, and the initial commerce bonus up until the Iron city is built.

---------------

I really don't like the Iron city up against the mountains. Our WC's can't protect it in that case, and any unit will have a more difficult time. If Vox does disregard the border treaty (in which the Iron is meant to be claimed by us) and culturally claims the Iron, it gives us a pretext for war... and one that GoW is going to support as it would be for 'their' Iron.

	24-03-2003 06:29									#22
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay Aeson is thinking that we'll need the extra gold from the new city working a roaded river tile to speed our way to Republic.

We get Republic one turn earlier, and wake up to see an RP city there?

I don't think we should take too many more chances with that iron.

	24-03-2003 06:30									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson I really don't like the Iron city up against the mountains. Our WC's can't protect it in that case, and any unit will have a more difficult time. If Vox does disregard the border treaty (in which the Iron is meant to be claimed by us) and culturally claims the Iron, it gives us a pretext for war... and one that GoW is going to support as it would be for 'their' Iron.

Could I see your city plan? I haven't seen that yet.

	24-03-2003 06:30									#24
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Aeson, did you do any checking for how founding the desert city affected waste/corruption elsewhere?

	24-03-2003 06:37									#25
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We'll be four turns later founding the iron city if we found the desert one first (thanks to having an extra road finished). That's not a huge risk in terms of someone beating us to it.

	24-03-2003 06:38									#26
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In such a case, we could kindly ask RP to leave and respect our continental 'manifest destiny' as we have respected theirs. If not, we can thank them for founding the city for us (later on, after it's been reclaimed) and carry the war to their lands.

We want someone to hit with our GA... the more excuse we have, the better it will come off to the others.

	24-03-2003 06:40									#27
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Wonder Alert

I thought to check F7 for the first time in quite a while, and Lego and GoW are both working on the Pyramids - GoW in Imperial City and Lego in a city called Jackson.

	24-03-2003 06:47									#28
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If GoW has 6 cities, the Palace wouldn't have gotten them all that close to the Pyramids. Size 3 still? The earliest they could have started the prebuild is 1375BC (their last drop to size 1)... no chance that they can beat us.

Lego might be a problem though.

	24-03-2003 06:49									#29
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Aeson, in case you missed it where I asked a few posts above, do you have any idea how building our desert city will affect waste/corruption in our other cities?

	24-03-2003 06:52									#30
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No I haven't checked how founding the desert city at 889 (Apolyton) affects some of the other cities. At 8889 it allows all the cities to fulfill their roles I outlined earlier. I think we can get there in time for the same benefits, but again, not sure because the exact beakers.

Can someone with access to the save give us Xbeakers = YTurns so we can figure it out?