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Thrumble
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I wonder if we really need all of these civs as trading partners? The bulk of the tech is coming from us and Lego, why not form an agreement to keep it to ourselves. We slow down tech research to prevent ND and GOW from getting to their Unique Units too quickly and instead work towards Military Tradition. Make them research Chivalry on their own.
Of course we wouldn't want to just come out and do this. We should diplomatically stall and steer them to becoming dependent on our research while they simply generate 100% revenue.
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OliverFA
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Leeds, UK
Sep 2002
time: 06:27
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I think that señor Thrumble has made a valid point here. At the present moment everything gets traded with everyone so quickly, and the tech advantage is just inexistent because the civs give more value to the gold they can get from the tech than to the advantages of being the only ones who know it.
However, a research partnership with Lego needs at least two things to work:
1) Greater combined research production from Lego/RP than from the other civs, since the other civs are very likely to continue trading everything among themselves.
2) The will of Lego not to trade our techs to anyone.
Can we be sure of these two prerrequisites?
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Thrumble
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Not necessarily an embargo, esteemed Señor. But perhaps an artificial slow down, if it takes us 6 turns to research a tech we tell everyone but Lego that we will finish it 9 turns.
We become the self-aware throttle of the tech race.
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Togas
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California
Jun 2002
time: 21:27
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new offer from Vox:
quote:
Togas - esteemed leader of the people of the squid,
Greetings, sir! First off I would like to advise you that Dissident has been inovolved in a mystical experience at the temple in The Voice - something called real life. We are not sure when he will re-emerge from the temple, so during this period of his transcendance, could you please direct correspondence to me. Jon will asssign a new foreign affairs advisor to you shortly. Thank-you.
On the matters of trade, we await your response to our earlier trade discussion. We would like to finalize it from our end. In fact, we would like to offer an expansion of the deal to include the Republic, at a cost of 160 gold payable as 8 gpt over 20 turns. This would make the combined deal one of currency, monotheism, and republic in exchange for 19 gold per turn for 20 turns. We would also insist that this deal be kept strictly confidential. You are free of course, to trade further any of these techs, as long as the source is not identified.
Please let me know as soon as possible regarding this deal, as we expect to have the techs shortly. I cannot recall if you have construction, or have made previous arrangements to receive it, but if not, we could also offer it to you at a highly discounted rate.
I trust all is well with you and your fine nation.
Regards ....
Beta
Voice of Foreign Affairs
Vox Controli
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Frankly, I don't care much for Republic, as Spain will not be ruled in such a mannor, but if they will give us a decent price for Construction, we should reconsider this. Also note that we can retrade any of these techs.
Please reopen this debate. 
--Togas
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Aidun
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The Hague, the capital of the civilized world
Nov 2002
time: 06:27
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I had some chat with ET from Roleplay yesterday  
quote:
[Aidun_idle_notice_me_for_chat] ET, I'm concerned with the political aspect of the trade: we trade with Vox while the BOB-alliance declares war on them, we should obey the decision of th alliance and declare war with Vox. It is ridiculous to make a trade agreement while we should declare the war. We can't explain that to our Bob-allies. It is in Vox's interest to get that deal however, because it decreases the chance on war so that they can peacefully settle on our continent.
[Aidun_idle_notice_me_for_chat] Trading with Vox at this moment is the opposite world
[E_T] What is this war is because GF had made everyone think that there was more units than we were originally lead to beleave
[E_T] I'm split with this, if we "join" the others, then we lose the possiblility of getting Mono for so cheap
[E_T] Also, we would have to trek a long way to actually send any forces to help
[E_T] This would also weaken us at home and ND could turn around and attack us while we are away
[E_T] They have to only move through their territory on roads to beat us home
[E_T] so the only thing that we can do really to "support" the others is via a trade embargo.
[Aidun_idle_notice_me_for_chat] Nobody asks to support the alliance militarily, Read the message of Darekill
[E_T] but if we entered into the pact with false knowledge being presented to us about what was up there, then we shouldn't honor that pact, at least in total
[E_T] I just got home and have to run out again, so please give me a link to follow
[Aidun_idle_notice_me_for_chat] I do also not oppose the deal or trade agreements with Vox, I oppose the idea to make a trade agreement wile we are supposed to have war with that civ. If Vox wants to take the risk of us having to declare war on them or to sabotate the them in some way, that is their responsibility. We can arrange an agreement thet we trade now and if war occurs we stop paying to continue when we have peace again, quite ridiculous too, but why not
[Aidun_idle_notice_me_for_chat] link?
[Aidun_idle_notice_me_for_chat] Now that we have that alliance we should take it serious, but securely filter the information we get through our allies, I don't trust GF at all for the info he has provided us as you can read in the Vox thread
[E_T] [Aidun_idle_notice_me_for_chat] .... Read the message of Darekill
[E_T] link to that
* E_T is now known as E_T_AFK
[Aidun_idle_notice_me_for_chat] Diplo thread
[Aidun_idle_notice_me_for_chat] last page
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Togas replied in response that he found the idea, pausing trade agreements to have a war and continue the trade agreement when the war has stopped, too risky. I have posted it here to inform you of this idea, not to propose it. It is an exploration about the possibilities in the margin of what's diplomatically possible.
Aidun Cian the older
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OliverFA
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Leeds, UK
Sep 2002
time: 06:27
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Republic is an special tech, sice we don't plan to use this form of government for many years, and our wise men don't need it to reach that new age they are talking about. For that reason I agree that we don't need to pay a single gold coin for that tech.
Eventually, when we need Republic we can either buy it or even research it a lot more cheaper (1/6 of its total cost, which by that time will probably be 4 galactic cicles due to our relative high science production and Republic low cost)
About Lego, I've been having a little chat with Togas at the IRC channel tonight. I agree that at that moment they are not in the mood to be our trade partners. That's so baaaaaaaaaaad 
However, if we work to gain their trust, we might reach a point in which we can propose them that deal, and maybe start the Third Age with that tech deal in work. Of course, meanwhile we should continue to do puntual trade deals with all the civs.
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pikesfan
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We need Feudalism more than Engineering, as we don’t yet have an urgent need to quickly cross rivers.
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25-03-2003 01:37
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