25-03-2003 03:50									#1
	Part Deux: What Version? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

What version shall we play?

Wasn't sure if some people still were not able to use 1.29 of Civ 3. I know for a fact 1.21 of PTW was not a worldwide release.

	25-03-2003 04:01									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

AFAIK 1.29 is now availiable in all languages. Also, since PTW came out recently in other languages, it was available with 1.14.

Personally, I'd like to play PTW 1.14, although I'm not sure if everyone has it...

-MZ

	25-03-2003 04:29									#3
	Support Apolyton

PTW 1.14. That seems to be the most prevalant version...

	25-03-2003 04:31									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'd like to play with PTW (preferably 1.21 for the Scientific fix), but I don't know how many here have it; and this IS supposed to be the nembie-friendly, accessible game.

	25-03-2003 05:24									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I agree with Kloreep, but if we decide to set up a PTW single player demogame, lets take the most recent update, there is no reason to stay to 1.14.

Aidun

	25-03-2003 05:27									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Not all countries currently have 1.21 AFAIK. That's the biggest reason.

	25-03-2003 06:32									#7
	Suffering from ads?

I urge anyone who sees this thread and is participating (ie they have signed up in the thread) to let us know whether you cannot play any of the above version.

Personally I can play any of them. I would prefer PtW for the extra units/WoWs/Civs, v1.14 or v1.21

	25-03-2003 06:39									#8
	Support Apolyton

The changes/additions for PtW v1.21f (from a post by cronos_qc)
Additions in v1.21f:
* Added support for numeric keypad special characters in edit boxes.
* Added support for faster-loading Multiplayer saved games and scenarios.
* Added a 'Locate City' hotkey to Multiplayer.
* Implemented Kick in the Staging Area.
* Added INI tweak to disable force feedback support: NoForceFeedback=1.
* Added a civilopedia reference to 'Happy Faces' if a building produces happy faces in the city window.


Changes in v1.21f:
* Hidden Nationality units are no longer forcibly removed from enemy territory via diplomacy.
* Expansionist civs can no longer build Scouts when civ-specific abilities are disabled.
* No player will be dropped within a certain timeframe of a player leaving the game.
* The Net Setup Window has been changed to a selective asynchronous process.
* Passwords are limited to 20 characters.
* ICBM's can no longer auto-bombard.
* Canceling Espionage in multiplayer no longer exits to map.
* Non-Empty Games Filter now filters out games with only one player (the host).
* Removed In-Progress Filter, replaced it with a Password Filter.
* GameSpy Connect call is now non-modal, meaning it can be cancelled and will time out if it fails to connect.
* Improved Pangaea map generation.
* Improved random free tech selection for the Scientific civ trait.


Fixes in v1.21f:
* Fixed bug with cultural opinion text being replaced with garbled text.
* Non-combat unit warning message has been changed to refer to both cities and terrain improvements.
* Fixed bug that incorrectly reported a rescued/re-captured princess as the player's princess being killed.
* Fixed an issue with overlapping popups.
* Fixed paste crash.
* Fixed bug that caused players in the loss sequence to receive a popup message telling them that they won when the actual winner exits the game.
* Fixed bug that allows users to cursor past text limits in edit boxes.
* Fixed loading saved games status message display.
* Fixed an out of synch related to stack movement.
* Fixed bug where the fog of war would cover the whole screen with the exception of the last city you were viewing.
* Fixed chat text getting cut off.
* Fixed bug where a single player loading a hotseat or PBEM game through the setup win could not exit.
* Reloading a game in the setup window will now show you messages again (such as Sending game to player xxx...).
* There is no longer a 'ghost' game in the lobby, both with clicking and mouseover.
* The lobby should no longer re-sort periodically unless you instigate it or a game is added/deleted.
* The AI can no longer be set to player '0' (barbarian) when loading a game.
* Fixed a bug in the spaceship screen where it would show your city on everyone screen (the city view screen).
* Chat text will no longer persist in the diplomacy window.
* Fixed an out of synch unique to turnless.
* Fixed a bug where you would load a turnless save and some cities would never produce again.
* Fixed a bug in turnless where units would simply stop moving, and cities would stop producing periodically.
* Fixed a bug with auto-precision bombing not choosing the proper targets.
* Fixed a bug that allowed players to change another's production after they stole their plans.
* Fixed an out of synch related to amphibious warfare.
* Fixed an out of synch involving nukes.
* Fixed a plethora of problems with filters.
* Fixed a bubble text bug with staging window.
* Fixed a array out of bounds issue with lobby window.
* Removed Asturias from Spanish city list.
* Fixed typo in conquistador civilopedia chapter.
* Correct date listed for Spain becoming a democracy in Spanish civilopedia chapter.
* Fixed crash involving starting hotseat games.
* Fixed the hang alive after pause bug.
* Fixed the bug where all players would have to hit enter (occasionally) after a pause.
* The spaceship screen will now process messages.
* Fixed hang alive when the spaceship screen comes up over diplomacy.
* Fixed bug (Single player and MP) where you could select a unit in an army and unload him (move him out).
* Filters now work as an OR filter in each group, and an AND filter cross-group.
* Fixed an out of synch caused by combat and lag.
* Games will now report correctly, instead of everything past load game reporting as elimination.
* Fixed an out of synch unique to eliminating a civilization.
* Fixed the win98 modem hosting with 3+ modems connecting slowdown/lockup bug.
* Fixed a bug where if you denied to vote on a UN leader, then no one in the game could win (they could however lose).
* Fixed the screen slot error in MP setup screen.
* Fixed crash when loading a save game where the host was eliminated and the new host had a different name than the next available player.
* Fixed bug where the game would do 2 turns instead of 1 when only 1 human player (non-original host) was left in the game to defeat AI.
* Fixed an infinite production exploit with PBEM games.
* Fixed a display bug in the MP setup window which would keep a combo box open indefinitely.
* Fixed graphic corruption issue in the MP setup screen when loading a PBEM game.
* Fixed an issue where the players name would vanish if they left and then returned quickly to the lobby window.
* Fixed bug where auto-bombard would not auto-bomb multiple terrain improvements in neutral territory.
* Fixed the military advisor speed.
* Fixed an out of synch with auto-precision bombing.
* Fixed a text overwrite issue in the staging window.
* Fixed a graphic issue where multiple leaders would be displayed in Military advisor.
* Fixed bug with hotseat/PBEM victory conditions and rules.
* Fixed a selection issue with the build queue in the city screen.
* Fixed a bug where the right click menu would stay up over top of screens.
* Fixed bug with Sentry not functioning in MP.
* Fixed bug where you could not ask an AI civ to remove its units from your territory.
* Fixed an out of synch involving advancing into a newly captured city tile which contained units which could be captured while the animation was onscreen.
* Slightly increased turn-flip performance to minimize lag (especially post-turn lag) in larger games with slower machines.
* Fixed lockup with nuke launching.
* Fixed bug which allowed multiple instances of the same nuke to be launched.
* Fixed remaining Hang Dead due to spaceship screen appearing over diplomacy.
* Fixed hang alive related to auto-bombardment or bombing from a city and then tributing that city to another player.
* Fixed crash when a mod had less than 24 races and the player chose 'Random'.
* Fixed a bug where the settler would occasionally not build a city in MP.
* Fixed a bug where you would lose mouse functionality in the city window.
* Fixed a bug that when the host is eliminated the game would lock.
* Fixed right click on an improvement from the city window referring the user to the incorrect civilopedia entry.
* Fixed grammar issue with MPP causing a civ to declare war on you.
* Fixed grammar issue in the spaceship screen.
* Fixed unit movement on road after combat bug.
* Fixed bug with unit healing.
* Fixed bug where the game would not end synchronously on all machines.
* Editor: Fixed memory leak.
* Fixed several bugs involving the display of several items near and crossing the x/y boundaries of the map.
* Fixed numerous text bugs in diplomacy.txt.
* Fixed bug in city view screen which allowed you to give orders while a pull down menu was up.
* Fixed a bad index to civilopedia in the city window.
* Fixed a bug where the user could abandon all of their cities if they had more than one.
* Fixed PathMananger infinite loop.
* Fixed some issues with lag.
* Fixed a bug with the civilopedia cursor.
* Fixed a graphics issue with bombarding and interception causing a lockup and graphics corruption.
* Fixed an out of synch involving non-stack moved settler/defender combo reporting as 'undefended' for humans.
* Fixed an out of synch involving barbarian movement.
* Fixed an out of synch involving combat.

Unless I have missed something, NONE of these are things that affect an SP game by much, if at all. The vast majority of this patch was to correct MP issues, and we are not concerned with them. Unless someone can bring up a reason why the SP game is better in v1.21 than in v1.14, there is no advantage beyond a few spelling corrections to v1.21.

	25-03-2003 07:38									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Scientific Civs are more random when they get their New Era Techs, whereas it used to be most likely to get Mono, Nat & Rocketry (I think).

I can go with using the 1.14, as long as we upgrade as soon as it's considered being released world wide.

E_T

	25-03-2003 09:00									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by E_T Scientific Civs are more random when they get their New Era Techs, whereas it used to be most likely to get Mono, Nat & Rocketry (I think). I can go with using the 1.14, as long as we upgrade as soon as it's considered being released world wide. E_T

Yep

1.14 but upgrade to 1.21 ASAP.

	25-03-2003 09:07									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I would like to try the city state idea proposed by Aidun in PTW demo game (We will all be in the same team, but playing multiple civs....)

	25-03-2003 09:16									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Calc II I would like to try the city state idea proposed by Aidun in PTW demo game (We will all be in the same team, but playing multiple civs....)

Considering the strong support for a vanilla SPDG, it looks like citystates would be an additional DG running alongside all the other ones. See the Citystates Interest/Signup thread.

	25-03-2003 09:54									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Yep 1.14 but upgrade to 1.21 ASAP.

I voted PTW 1.14, but I agree.

	25-03-2003 10:31									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

Considering Infogrames's history of internatonal support, It'll probably be a while till 1.21 is available worldwide.

Still as MrWIA pointed out, there aren't many SP differences between both patches., it would really make little differences besides the random tech thingee.

BTW, anybody agree we should perhaps disable Diplomatic victory so we may enjoy the Modern Age??

	25-03-2003 10:58									#15
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

MasterZen, you should try to run a chat as the Prez, moving 200, 250 units EACH turn, relocating WF in 60 cities size 12~22, changing queues in almost all of those cities... (don't forget the CoL... if you disrespect any senate bill you will be &$@#...), with everybody looking at you...

I'm exaggerating a bit, but you can see my point...

	25-03-2003 19:23									#16
	Tired of ads?

Or you can just tell the DM to kiss your *ss about locating the WF. Who cares if you get one more shield out of a city that's already pumping out 100 shields?

Not that I did that, but it DID take an hour A FULL 1/2 OF THE CHAT I PLAYED to set up all the build ques, change the workforces, and get through the Dm orders, and that was all before even the first turn was finished. Yes, that got frustrating. At least I saved MrWIA from doing any REAL work this term! Just venting...no offense meant Aidun, you were doing your job.

Another Idea I have to solve that is allowing the Pres/VP/DM to DO THOSE THINGS BEFORE A CHAT!!! let the chat be about the more fun aspects, not changing workers around a city grid. I really like the idea of simply having the DM set all thos up himself prior to the chat. Instead of posting orders, the DM arranges all ques the day before the chat and reposts the save. Simple as that.

	25-03-2003 19:27									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

well i have both. vanilla c3 and PTW so it isnt a problem.....my computer on the other hand is....i cant get PTW to play on this one....so government positions will be out for a long time....but i am ok with everything

	25-03-2003 19:32									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I say keep diplo victory as it lets us cut the game short if we know we have won, as just occured.

Voted banana. Would prefer CtP any version but will accept whatever is most available to the public.

	25-03-2003 19:40									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

I can't help DM is the biggest job, but imagine how nice it is to be DM: First challenge: getting regional governors. 2nd) creating a guide for governors; 3rd) making a general policy 4th)having the RG's post their orders in time. You are responsible for that: if they don't post any orders you have do do the job yourself. Very nice to do if you are DM of an empire like Apolytonia. 5th) checking the orders posted by the RG's: if they do not comply to your policy, you have to Veto them and post new ones instead.
BTW Unortho, I know what a hell of a job it is to implement the DM orders in the game, I did it myself in Aro's last turnchat of term 8.

Aidun

	25-03-2003 19:54									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Aidun - I can sympathize, I was City Planner term 4 & 5 (I think) just before the NewCon took effect and merged the work with the slave master and city locator positions.... and our civ was 1/2 the size it is now, and it took 10 hours of work every week to keep up without touching the save (realize, only the Prez or VP were allowed to touch the save prior to term 6).

This job is the most important and biggest in this game. The earlier it is the more nit picky you must be.

I would love to see something revised, but don't know how to do so and make it work.

	25-03-2003 20:14									#21
	Got spare money?

Godking, neither do I. I'm satisfied with the sysyem as it is now, it just lays a heavy responsibility on the DM.

Few imagine this, but in fact the DM governs the country: without his approval, the SMC has no units and the FAM has nothing to trade, without tech improvements, the Minister of Science is lame and the same counts for the minister of economy without markets, banks etc.

Aidun

	25-03-2003 21:53									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

my vote as a mac user without OSX or any chance of getting a port of PTW in the near future, must go with the banana.

(is the latest mac patch at all compatible with the PC sav files?
technical ability unsuprisingly :confused

happy to be a citizen in any case, will follow with interest.

I only hope my vote can be put to more productive use in the future of our empire than this.

	25-03-2003 22:59									#23
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Also Mac users are very welcome Beno!

Enjoy this citizenship.

Aidun

	25-03-2003 23:43									#24
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Aidun Godking, neither do I. I'm satisfied with the sysyem as it is now, it just lays a heavy responsibility on the DM. Few imagine this, but in fact the DM governs the country: without his approval, the SMC has no units and the FAM has nothing to trade, without tech improvements, the Minister of Science is lame and the same counts for the minister of economy without markets, banks etc. Aidun

Both GK and I spearheaded a movement basically stating this point a while back.

Don't you think allowing a DM to alter the sav, only for his orders, would ease SOME of the burden? Allow him to set up ques, whatnot, and only need to instruct the Pres reguarding changes that would be needed in the next 5 turns?

	26-03-2003 00:11									#25
	Tired of ads?

Good thinking UnOrthO, why not? The DM has now in the chat a quite inactive role and I've seen the FAM and SMC also doing their own orders whether that was legal ro not, it happened. Why not for the DM?

Go, let's change the system!

Aidun

	26-03-2003 01:06									#26
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

No SMC should have moved units unless he was authorized by the Pres. IIRC there was a system where the Pres could institute a chain of command... But SMC's should not have been moving before their orders were carried out (ie exploring different paths)

The FAM is allowed to SEE what the civs would accept, but not to actually go through with anything.

But yes, let the DM hold a Mini chat with his RG's for the purpose of ques and WF's before the regular chat. ESPECIALLY LATE GAME.

	26-03-2003 01:32									#27
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

UnOrthO, of course he was alway's authorized.

DM chat
I'm in favor

Aidun

	26-03-2003 02:13									#28
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Aidun DM chat I'm in favor Aidun

Same here.

	26-03-2003 02:43									#29
	Get a bigger avatar today!

IIRC, a RG or the DM would occassionally do some/all of the Turn 0 queue and WF changes back in Term 8, but it was never institutionalized and the practice dropped off.

DM mini-chats are a great idea.

	26-03-2003 03:53									#30
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I missed term 8 or I assure you that would have been thought of allot sooner in term X.