25-03-2003 09:25									#1
	Turn 26 Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

To be edited by the Consuls and Ministers.

Status:
- Researching Bronze Working at ?%, ready in 1 turn. Should only require 4 beakers
- 39 gold cash, -1 gpt.

Urgent questions:
Set research to Iron Working?
Next item in Apolyton build que?

Military:
Bigfree the Warrior where to from here? South and West sounds good.
Alva the Warrior 3?.
New warrior needs name. Fortifies in Apolyton?

Economy:
Worker road or mine?
Apolyton labourers need adjusting.
Luxury slider ?% Set to keep Apolyton out of disorder.

Diplomacy:
CDG: NAP in effect.
GCA: Contact imminent.

---

Discussion and basic reporting to follow. See the topped thread for comprehensive results.

Last edited by notyoueither on 25-03-2003 at 09:37

	25-03-2003 09:28									#2
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What are we researching next?

Are we still going Granery, Warrior, Warrior, Settler, Settler, Warrior, Warrior for City 1?

Are we still planning Granery for the first build in city 2?

Are we going to simply go back North with WBigFree if GCA says so or else?

The discussions seemed to have died on these issues with out a concrete discision being posted; at least I haven't seen anything concrete. I'm a little under the weather; if these things have been decided on and posted about, please point me in the right direction.

Thanks

	25-03-2003 09:36									#3
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Good questions, Bigfree.

I am under the impression that we,

1. Research Iron Working.
2. Build another warrior before starting the settler.
3. Build que for city 2 is open for discussion. I thought a Barracks was favoured.
4. I doubt Wbigfree will return North right off. I would prefer to see him strike off to the West. Yes, I am prepared to stand our ground on that. Much remains to be seen, but I am not inclined to accept dictation from a civ who is not in any position to immediately effect us.

Of course, all 4 points are my impressions and are subject to change due to advice by ministers, discussion among citizens, and results of negotiation.

	25-03-2003 09:41									#4
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What if we can trade something to GCA for IW? I'm sure GCA will get IW from CDG if we can't. We need to discuss this issue with GCA before we make our next research choice.

	25-03-2003 09:44									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Trip What if we can trade something to GCA for IW? I'm sure GCA will get IW from CDG if we can't. We need to discuss this issue with GCA before we make our next research choice.

Hopefully there is time, but what if CDG is telling the truth about researching Alphabet?

If they are on IW, why not trade Masonry for Alphabet and Pottery for Ceremonial Burial with GCA?

Of course, they could have traded Masonry for Alphabet and we'd never know it.

	25-03-2003 09:48									#6
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Yes, we need to get on top of this ASAP.

MOW plans are to continue generally to the south until the FAM can resolve the situation.

	25-03-2003 10:18									#7
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Contact will occur within the next 24 hours. Anything is possible. I urge the Consuls to be available as much as possible during this period of time as we may have to make some quick decisions about both our research, trade deals, and movements.

--Togas

	25-03-2003 10:27									#8
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nye, all relevant economic actions are in the Ministry of the Interior topped thread (I know you know this, but recently you've been making it seem like there are urgent questions in the Turn threads concerning the Interior, when all this information is in fact in the suggested queue).

In any case, here are the recommendations for Turn 26:

26 Capital size 4, leave Laborer on Coast, Luxuries 10%, Warrior done, begin another, Worker begins Road; 0S, 0F

I am also under the impression that we are building another Warrior next, followed by our first Settler. If we feel comfortable with our situation, we could get a Settler in 4 turns, though. Please let me know which option is preferred here, as it will affect the Laborer assignments for the next turn. I'll assume it's Warrior.

The plan I'm working on includes the following (as of Turn 26):

Apolyton: Warrior, Settler, Settler, Numidian Merc.
City1: Numidian Merc., Worker, Barracks
City2: Granary, Settler/Worker

With this plan we have 2 Mercs. quite fast, and can still get a Granary to help with the Jungle-cutting. Since we've tentatively agreed that Vet. Mercs. are unecessary right now, I'm delaying the Barracks a bit. It will be up and running in due time to produce some Vet. Warriors (for when we see the Iron).


Dominae

	25-03-2003 10:40									#9
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That looks great Dominae.

I still want a 3rd NM before the NAP with CDG expires, but that looks like a good base to work with.

What are we looking at research-wise? I still think that IW is a pretty bad idea, especially since we'll be able to get it from either CDG or GCA before too long. We have to start looking towards techs we can use to trade, rather than those that will help us here and now. Hopefully we can get IW from GCA or someone though... we'll see tomorrow.

	25-03-2003 10:48									#10
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Are we almost guaranteed to get Iron Working from either team? If so, then we could start Writing. But I would feel a lot safer knowing where the Iron lies for certain, since it allows our best defense.


Dominae

	25-03-2003 10:51									#11
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Dominae Are we almost guaranteed to get Iron Working from either team?

That's very odd, because what I've quoted you here is almost an identical quote from what Togas just said in the chatroom not too long ago.

It's mainly up to the FAM and MOI to discuss this issue though, so I'll let you guys decide.

	25-03-2003 11:00									#12
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The only way it really impacts the MOI is to know if Vet. Warriors are a valid build item. There's not much planning that can be done concerning the Iron itself, for obvious reasons. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping there's some in the Hills next to Apolyton (how else would they figure our starting location was acceptable?!?!).

So I believe the MOW is far more critical in the decision to go for Iron Working. You're the one that will be using the units eventually...and I'm sure you would rather have Swordsmen than Archers.


Dominae

	25-03-2003 11:09									#13
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Well it's the MOI's decision which techs we research, and city placement is also under the MOI's authority.

If the FAM can assure us IW through trade, then there's no need to worry.

Looking at things with your perspective, I don't see us needing to go on an offensive any time soon. A war against CDG (the most likely target) would benefit GCA much more than it would benefit us. Unless we start seeing streams of Immortals flowing through the marsh and vines, we have nothing to fear from CDG. As long as we're not going to be trying to take ground, we have little need for Swordsmen now, which is why I'm not too worried now even if we don't have iron in our immediate vicinity (though it will be a huge issue later on, obviously).

While Veteran Warriors upgraded to Swordsmen for 30 gold (or is it 40?) is pretty cool, I would rather have the assurance of NMs than the risk of wasting shields on Vet Warriors which may never pay dividends.

And that's straight from the MOW's mouth.

	25-03-2003 11:13									#14
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Dominae nye, all relevant economic actions are in the Ministry of the Interior topped thread (I know you know this, but recently you've been making it seem like there are urgent questions in the Turn threads concerning the Interior, when all this information is in fact in the suggested queue).

I am leaving the door open for change. If nothing changes, then we can use the Ministry thread.

re research, I think this is an issue bigger than the Military or the Interior alone, although everyone is happy to see the ministers involved and debating.

	25-03-2003 11:27									#15
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FAM cannot "assure" us of Iron Working, but we know it is out there and it is obtainable via trade ... we just may not like the price. CDG has made it available to us via trade in the past.

FAM would prefer that we research something tradeable so that we may attempt some sort of tech cooperation with our neighbors. However, as future trade negotiations are still contingent upon GCA having friendly relations with us, I would recommend a tradeable but cheap tech that neither of our neighbors have, so that if all else fails we can still go back to IW (and research it at a reduced rate due to our neighbors having it).

My reccomendation is Warrior Code.

--Togas

	25-03-2003 13:00									#16
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When did CDG make IW available via trade?

From what I can see, if they have not lied, we can research it first.

Let's see what the tale of the tech ladder tells us next turn. And what the diplomats have to report.

	25-03-2003 14:35									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae I'm crossing my fingers and hoping there's some in the Hills next to Apolyton (how else would they figure our starting location was acceptable?!?!).

...because we have 3 sources of Uranium nearby...


Anyway - if you plan the build queue, better make contact first. If GCA turns out to be very agressive, we'll need more military than otherwise.

Also, be careful that our city does not grow beyond size 4, or we'll have major happiness problems!

	25-03-2003 19:55									#18
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Apolyton will grow to size 5 for a turn or two before the Settler is built. This is a side-effect of building two Warriors after our Granary before the Settler. This should not be a problem if we use the Luxury slider at 20% for those two turns, which will cost us under 5 gold.


Dominae

	25-03-2003 20:11									#19
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If we have roads on all 5 tiles it shouldn't cost us any gold really. The extra laborers provide the commerce to pay for their own entertainment.

	25-03-2003 20:36									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson The extra laborers provide the commerce to pay for their own entertainment.

I love this sentence!

	25-03-2003 21:16									#21
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They always said that society was corrupt.

	25-03-2003 23:50									#22
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::grumbles about building two warriors before the settler instead of one::

::grumbles some more::

	25-03-2003 23:54									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon ::grumbles about building two warriors before the settler instead of one:: ::grumbles some more::

It's either build 2 before our 2nd city or leave our capital undefended for 2-4 turns, which is unacceptable.

	26-03-2003 02:30									#24
	Put an end to popups!

I would have preferred 1 warrior also. But it was decided (against my wishes) that alva would explore to the South. Once we decided to do this IMHO we need the second warrior for defense purposes.

	26-03-2003 02:49									#25
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Also note that we are now in contact with GCA as of this turn. Nothing to report or offer at the moment as we are still working on deals at the moment.

Would it be possible though for our MoW to move our warrior one tile away from the borders of Gamecatcher's, as a gesture of "good will"? We will still push southward though

	26-03-2003 03:12									#26
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quote: Originally posted by WhiteBandit Also note that we are now in contact with GCA as of this turn. Nothing to report or offer at the moment as we are still working on deals at the moment. Would it be possible though for our MoW to move our warrior one tile away from the borders of Gamecatcher's, as a gesture of "good will"? We will still push southward though

Of course.

MOW orders changed. Let's just hope that CDG won't get upset.

	26-03-2003 03:45									#27
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

OK, for an easier reference, this is Wbigfree's situation at the start of Turn 26:

	26-03-2003 04:00									#28
	Got spare money?

I think we're all agreed that we're just going to call their city Ogat2k.

Our main goal for scouting is to flee into the mist so they can't find W2 'BigFree' before they can keep track on him.

	26-03-2003 04:02									#29
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There is no diplomatically agreeable direction to travel. We told CDG we would not go north, GCA wants us to leave and not to be within 1 tile of their borders. West and SW are both within CDG's borders.

We need to head for the fog-of-war and vanish. We also need to keep scouting. I would recommend that we move West (4) and that we prepare to send forth apologies to CDG but NOT ENTER CHATS on scouting issues with them unless we are forced to do so, and even then, I do not believe it is in our best interest to make ANY scouting deals with either team.

--Togas

	26-03-2003 04:09									#30
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I say screw CDG if they don't like us moving West from this position. If they protest we can liken their settling in this position to be one of 'blocking our movement' or an attempt to do so.

We realize that the reason they wasnted us to wait two turns was that so they could:

1. Finish the Tech deal with GCA for Pottery and CB

2. Settle in an area that would attempt to thwart our futher scouting South.

They new well in advance that this would be the situation. Let them stew in their own pot, they prepared it.