25-03-2003 20:24									#1
	Which countries constitute "Old Europe", anyway? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Now, it's easy to imagine "New Europe" as the Eastern European nations in support of the campaign, but did Rumsfeld or whoever invented the term ever bother to define the golden oldies? France, Germany, those are no-brainers, but are Russia and Sweden "Old Europe" too?

Aznar in Spain is a huge Bush fan and the Danish government has even dispatched some troops (that you'll never hear about). Does this make these countries New Europe or rather not-so-new-but-not-that-Old Europe-either? I don't really like the war but there are American exports at stake here.

	25-03-2003 20:29									#3
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Who would expect any logic from a moron like Rumsfeld?

	25-03-2003 20:31									#4
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Perhaps we could differ a bit: Germany and France are "Very Old Europe", while Scandinavia is "Not So Old Europe". According to Rummy Britain and Spain are probably "Oldie but Goldie".

	25-03-2003 20:32									#5
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I thought the "old Europe" thing was nothing more than a phrase. I don't think there is any analysis to support the concept. As such, IMO, it is only a shallow terminology to bash France, Germany and Belgium, and to show how isolated and wrong they are.
I am not aware anyone in the White House included Greece, Austria, Sweden or such into the "old Europe". In fact, I think most Bushies have given up the phrase pretty quickly, and it only remained in the media and the public opinion.

	25-03-2003 20:39									#6
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Thanks guys. But surely Denmark must be a significantly newer Europe than the rest of the Scandinavians.

While we're at it, does anybody know why the Danish government would send a submarine to assist the coalition in a campaign of desert warfare? It's a serious question.

	25-03-2003 20:43									#7
	Re: Which countries constitute "Old Europe", anyway? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Monk Now, it's easy to imagine "New Europe" as the Eastern European nations in support of the campaign, but did Rumsfeld or whoever invented the term ever bother to define the golden oldies? France, Germany, those are no-brainers, but are Russia and Sweden "Old Europe" too? Aznar in Spain is a huge Bush fan and the Danish government has even dispatched some troops (that you'll never hear about). Does this make these countries New Europe or rather not-so-new-but-not-that-Old Europe-either? I don't really like the war but there are American exports at stake here.

I guess in this post you mentioned more European countries than the average American, maybe even Rumsi, knows at all!

	25-03-2003 20:44									#8
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I think "Old Europe" is any country that doesn't agree with Bush

TBH, I hope we can get past this and have just "Europe" soon.

	25-03-2003 20:45									#9
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Didn't the Spaniards send (among other forces) a submarine too to retake that rock near the Moroccan coast (forgot the name), captured by no less than 12 soldiers?

	25-03-2003 20:50									#10
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I didn't know they sent a submarine for Persil Island. I thought they only thumped their chest.
What does the Spanish army look like ? I heard it sucks, but it is pure hearsay, and I have no reliable info on it...

	25-03-2003 20:53									#11
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As far as I heard, it was a frigate, a sub and some other fearsome force. Guess a holiday steamer with a platoon of soldiers would have done it too.

	25-03-2003 20:53									#12
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Of course Rumsfeld himself seems to have forgotten that his Family once came from Germany and therefore Old Europe.

Rumsfelds german relatives (to whom he paid occasional visits) werenŽt amused about his Statements concerning "Old Europe" and comparing Germany with Libya and Cuba

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0209-02.htm

	25-03-2003 20:53									#13
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IŽve read several times, that New Yorck is the US city, where most people oppose the war.
shouldnŽt they rename it in Old Yorck then?

	25-03-2003 20:55									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Proteus_MST Of course Rumsfeld himself seems to have forgotten that his Family once came from Germany and therefore Old Europe.

That's bold. So far I thought, that Germany only imports psychopaths from Austria. Now I learn, that Germany also exports them to America.

	25-03-2003 20:58									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph That's bold. So far I thought, that Germany only imports psychopaths from Austria. Now I learn, that Germany also exports them to America.

	25-03-2003 22:32									#16
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The "Old Europe" term is not much more than a diplomatic euphemism for an insult.

	25-03-2003 22:45									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph That's bold. So far I thought, that Germany only imports psychopaths from Austria. Now I learn, that Germany also exports them to America.

Best way to get rid of them, isnŽt it?

	25-03-2003 23:11									#18
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what insult is that, Kropotty?

	25-03-2003 23:22									#19
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I'm curious though as to what price the 'new' europe will have to pay, once this is all behind us.
-

	25-03-2003 23:27									#20
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Old Europe: those nations who supported us in our War of Independence against England and presently oppose the war against Iraq (e.g., France and Germany).

New Europe: those nations, including Great Britian, who opposed American independence and are supporting us in the war against Iraq (e.g., Spain, proud member of the Habsburg "Axis of Evil" at the time).

Makes you think, doesn't it?

Last edited by Jules on 25-03-2003 at 23:42

	25-03-2003 23:59									#21
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Didn't Spain support the American independence as well??

	26-03-2003 00:03									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Didn't Spain support the American independence as well??

I honestly have no idea. My original post was a lame troll, I'll admit it.

	26-03-2003 00:12									#23
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Old Europe: Germany, France, Russia, China, Canada, Mexico, any other country that doesnt support us.

New Europe: Spain, Britain, Eastern Europe (-Russia)

	26-03-2003 00:35									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 Old Europe: Germany, France, Russia, China, Canada, Mexico, any other country that doesnt support us. New Europe: Spain, Britain, Eastern Europe (-Russia)

Damn, geography in the US is even worse then I thought...

	26-03-2003 00:40									#25
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quote: Originally posted by alva Damn, geography in the US is even worse then I thought...

What, you mean Mexico ISN'T a part of Europe??? D'oh!

	26-03-2003 00:43									#26
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quote: Originally posted by alva Damn, geography in the US is even worse then I thought...

Europe used to span the entire globe! So all the countries of the world are OLD EUROPE!

New Europe is just Eastern Old Europe (minus Russia). And all those countries supporting us.

Dont schools in Belgium teach these things.... Just goes to show how Belgium is OLD EUROPE.

	26-03-2003 00:49									#27
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"Old Europe" would be the countries that have 'ruled the world' for ages.
It would include Spain and The Netherlands and The UK.

	26-03-2003 01:22									#28
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Too much talk about "Old Europe" and "New Europe". Let's talk about "Future Europe" instead
(pic by Paul Hanson, IIRC)

Attachment: eu-2050ad.gif
This has been downloaded 77 time(s).

	26-03-2003 01:29									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Combat Ingrid Too much talk about "Old Europe" and "New Europe". Let's talk about "Future Europe" instead (pic by Paul Hanson, IIRC)

	26-03-2003 01:53									#30
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it still cracks me up