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Frogman
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Baghdad will be ugly. I think every man, woman and child is a threat to our soldiers and occupation of that city will be a nightmare. This is butt ugly and we are going to have to kill a lot of civilians before this is over.
I'm afraid we have to go for the power and the water supplies to subdue the population. We have to get the civilian population streaming out of Baghdad before we can go in.
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Andrew1999
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SOUTHERN IRAQ (CNN) -- A U.S. military supply convoy carrying 250,000 gallons of diesel fuel made its way north from Kuwait Tuesday night toward coalition troops who were forced to halt their advance for lack of fuel.
U.S. supply lines stretch from forward units in southern Iraq, south toward Kuwait, Savidge reported. "Fuel is what makes all these vehicles and the machinery run," Savidge said. "They actually had to pause operations (Tuesday) and delay moving forward because fuel was running so low."
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast...pply/index.html
Do we hope the the military is lying to us, or that it is incompotent? I'm genuinely torn...
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Frogman
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They weren't actually out of gas. They won't run less than half full so that they are always prepared for combat. Yeah, running your tanks til they're out of gas would be incompetant.
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Frogman
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quote:
by Boshko
Well obviously the planning is ****ed up because they're changing it as we speak. Before they were doing a mad dash to Baghdad and trying to bypass any resistance and now they're slowing down and mopping up. |
Thats a stupid comment. Its well known and accepted that the best laid battle plan doesn't last past the first battle. Battle plans always have been and always will be fluid because you can never predict the enemies actions. We never guessed the Iraqi would have had soldiers dress as civilians and wave white flags to lure us into a couple of pot shots. They thought they could leave the urban areas alone but found out they couldn't so they changed the plan.
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by carnide_
I tough along those lines to, but:
1) They are not going to kill everyone in Bagdad
2) A working Iraq TV is a deadly weapon against coalition forces, exactly by the same reason they need it after the victory.
So, its a need to stop it now, even if we are going to need it later. |
They tried to destroy it. The bombing took it off-line for several hours, then it came back.
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Sloth
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Very interesting article....
The matter is the role and ideas of Iraqi opposition, something that in my opinion is crucial for the political outcome of the war.
A bit off-topic but I deemed better to post here than to start a new thread
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2003Mar26.html
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CerberusIV
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Some of what is coming out suggests that the Fedayeen loyal to Saddam are forcing other Iraqi forces in Basra to come out and fight the British. If true I suspect the British are content to wait a few days until only the hard core loyalists are left in Basra before they move in.
They will then rely on the ordinary population not hiding these loyalists so they are exposed and can be dealt with. The UK troops can control an urban area IF the Saddam loyalists don't have anywhere to hide. A lot of if's and the biggest one is how the ordinary people of Basra will react to foreign troops. Without secure areas it will be very difficult for Iraqi forces to wage guerilla tactics for more than a couple of weeks if the British can secure the city.
One thing that might hold back an advance into Basra is that it would be somewhat embarassing for the US army if the British can secure control of Basra whilst US forces cannot deal with Baghdad.
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Stuie
This is more spin related, but why is it that when Iraqi military/paramilitary dress as civilians they are called "war criminals", but when the US military does the same (as they have been purported to have done in northern Iraq) they are called "special forces".
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There are distinctions. When SOF's operate with friendly foreign troops in high risk areas, they often adopt local wear (Peshmerga "uniforms" in Kurdistan, local militia wear in Afghanistan, beards if common among the natives, etc.) to reduce their profile as a target of snipers, suiciders, etc. These are not "civilian" clothes - the intent is to just look like one more of the local fighters.
In many covert observation missions or of direct action missions, SOF's operate in uniform, or uniform variants. Whether issue uniforms, allied nation issue uniforms, or native militia wear with issue distinctions or any other variation on uniform is worn is at the discretion of the SOCOM commander in the particular theater. In some cases, civilian clothes may be an essential component of the mission, however it is recognized that an individual captured in that state is not entitled to GC protection.
It is understood that if captured, you're not likely to be treated according to the GC in any event, although you may be kept alive if the enemy finds that doing so has some perceived use. The general rule is not to let yourself be captured.
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Instead of seiging Basra, I heard that the Brits will instead enter the city and fight the Iraqis in the streets. I think that's a big, big mistake. |
You've heard is likely wrong, at least as to the tactics. What the Brits will most likely do is enter in small groups on missions applied to specific targets.
The general population of Basra is not armed and prepared to fight to the first man, let alone the last. There's a mixture of Baath party members who know their post-Saddam future is standing in front of a wall, Saddam fedayin, SRGs, ISSS and conscript army units with regular officers.
The Brits (paras, RMCs, etc.) can infiltrate in small unit actions for recon, sniping, hit and run raids against the hardcore, ammunition caches, etc. They will also try and establish contact with likely rebels, and give them supplies and coordinate recon and intel activities.
The cowboy meatgrinder thing in cities is really passé.
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Jack_www
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Also everyone should remember that the orginal plan was to have two fronts, maybe even three fronts. One in the North with the 4 infantry division and anther one in south with Current troops already there. The 4th infantry division equiment is now heading for the captured port(sorry I forgot the name of it!) and will reinforce the forces arround Bagdhad. I think most of precieved misstakes and such are result of media not know the full plan, since it is top secret. Also no one said that this would be a quick and easy war, but they want to take out Saddam and his government as fast as they can then focus on the pockets of resistence that are left.
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:27
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Overall I have no real criticism of US/UK tactics. The plan, to the extent the public knows it, seems logical. I am surprised that the reporters and pentagon are acting surprised wrt Iraqi tactics. The Iraqi approach seems entirely predictable to me. The only thing they have done that surprises me is to attempt to move columns from place to place, becoming vulnerable to airpower. Perhaps stories of stiff Iraqi resistence led them to gamble some forces on an attempt to push the coalition back.
If I were the coalition, I would LOVE anything that brings Iraqi troops out of the cities and into places where the superior firepower may be brought to bear. If it were possible to accomplish, I would try to dangle possible victories before the Iraqis so that they commit more and more forces in open battles of maneuvre where US military might would flourish.
Don't know if :
a) such disinformation is possible OR
b) that the Iraqis would fall for it
The best Iraqi strategy seems to be to stay in the towns and cities and run a harrassment campaign of lightning strikes at supply lines
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spiritof1202
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Basrah had its TV and radio knocked out today... preventing the Saddam propoganda getting in. People tend to notice these things as signs that the old regime is losing its grip.
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Dr Strangelove
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I just read that the US is now in the process of sending another 100,000 troops to Iraq. I kinda think that the command should have realized they'd be needed there before starting and should have seen to it that they were already in place.
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27-03-2003 04:46
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