28-03-2003 10:51									#61
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The press has FUBAR'd the number. A lot of these troops have previously been reported as deployed or given deployment orders.

Classic example, the heavy equipment of 4 ID has been on ships for weeks while we were trying to buy off the Turks, but we haven't stuff the troops on those ships, just their equipment. They were scheduled to be in theater anyway as soon as the equipment started to arrive in port, so they can mate up with it, get their gear squared away and move out. They're being reported now as if this is a reinforcing move, when it really isn't.

Same with 1 CD and 1 AD - only a few of this number of troops are real additions and real reinforcements, because their deployments are being reported twice.

The difference is that now that the ports are clearing and the equipment transporters etc. are being freed up, these units will get untracked and moved into the line very quickly. These units will be a lot fresher and faster from port to line than the original units, as a result of being able to carry the heavy equipment in on wheeled transporters, and only offload it once they arrive at their forward staging areas.

Within a couple of weeks, though, virtually the whole show will be in town and ready for opening night, so the Iraqis will collapse very fast after that.

	28-03-2003 11:05									#62
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I was wondering where the hell they got that 120,000 number from.

	28-03-2003 11:32									#63
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Coalition tactics - Post your critics here Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I am not sure. Suppose the water supply is regulated by the government, does that become a legit target? It seems doubtful.

The fact that it's regulated by the government doesn't change the nature of the facility, any more than if it was a state-run food warehouse or hospital. For that matter, the local traffic court.

Let me clarify - facilities which house government functions or functionaries which may have significance to their military capability are legit targets. Defense ministries, state-owned communications, production ministries, security and law enforcement organizations, and anything which houses any equipment or materiel with warfighting potential.

Oh, UR - JSTARS sees right through sandstorms, and we have high altitude and orbital imaging capability that doesn't give a rat's ass about sandstorms.

	28-03-2003 16:16									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber Overall I have no real criticism of US/UK tactics. The plan, to the extent the public knows it, seems logical. I am surprised that the reporters and pentagon are acting surprised wrt Iraqi tactics. The Iraqi approach seems entirely predictable to me. The only thing they have done that surprises me is to attempt to move columns from place to place, becoming vulnerable to airpower. Perhaps stories of stiff Iraqi resistence led them to gamble some forces on an attempt to push the coalition back. If I were the coalition, I would LOVE anything that brings Iraqi troops out of the cities and into places where the superior firepower may be brought to bear. If it were possible to accomplish, I would try to dangle possible victories before the Iraqis so that they commit more and more forces in open battles of maneuvre where US military might would flourish. Don't know if : a) such disinformation is possible OR b) that the Iraqis would fall for it The best Iraqi strategy seems to be to stay in the towns and cities and run a harrassment campaign of lightning strikes at supply lines

Good post Flubber, and I agree. For my money the "plan" is a good one, especially considering the limitations imposed by the lack of a robust staging area (Kuwait is attached to Iraq only at a far and small corner and is limited in its ability to bring in troops and deploy them quickly) and the changes necessary since the Turks left a knife in our back.

Sending the 3rd ID up the left flank protects their left flank with desert and their right flank with the Euphrates. Sending the Marines up through Mesopotamia further protects the right flank of the 3rd ID and allows the Allies to concentrate their forces on either side of the Euphrates to deal with any large scale counterattacks, or conversely to aid one another in a large scale attack or exploitation of a breakthrough.

You are absolutely correct that the U.S. would rather fight in the open, and the attempts by Iraqi forces to infiltrate our supply lines along the Euphrates have cost them a lot more than they have cost us in terms of casualties. The troublesome area is of course the cities along the Euphrates that have bridges. The heaviest fighting seems to be concentrated in these cities, and the Marines especially seem to be having a fairly tough go of it. But the 3rd ID is in position to threaten the Iraqi flank along the line of the Euphrates over a large area, and I expect that should the Marines bog down any longer we will see part of the 3rd dash across Mesopotamia in order to cut off any large forces that may remain in the South, and get the Marines rolling again. Notice how the pounding of the RG Division on the west side of the Euphrates frees up some of the 3rd ID for just such a flanking operation if necessary.

The sandstorms have definitely inhibited coalition movement over the past few days, just as the decision by Sadaam to fight in the south has pushed the timetable back some. But keep in mind that this is not a clockwork operation where every part is dependent on another part going as planned. Franks doesn't work like that (and no senior officer with halfway decent odds should do so). He is putting himself in a position to win by constantly giving himself more options than the enemy has, and doing as much damage to the enemy as he can in every encounter. He will leave the enemy a series of bad choices if at all possible. Stay put and be worn down by air power, or sortie out of prepared positions and be defeated in detail by a combination of air power and ground forces. That sort of thing.

With the storms over the helicopters will be able to take to the air and will have an effect on Iraqi mobility both in the attempts to interdict allied supplies by infiltration as well as strategic and tactical movement in the Iraqi rear. They can also add quite a lot to the further degredation of heavy units around Baghdad. I wouldn't be surprised to see the advance held up for a while longer though for a couple of reasons. Firstly, we are in no hurry. Every day the enemy's combat power is declining while ours will increase as the follow on forces arrive in Kuwait and deploy. Secondly I'm sure that these storms have damaged a lot of gear which will need to be repaired before these heavy units go into heavy combat. Finally between the storms and the interdiction of our supply lines it may take some time to build up depots to supply our forward troops for the next bound forward.

	28-03-2003 18:37									#65
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Coalition forces now suffer more cassaulties from theirselves, than from enemy. All muslims must be removed from US army.

	28-03-2003 20:54									#66
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Well, these are strategic objectives, but I am quite pleased that much of the oil infrastructure in the South was secured before being sabotaged by Iraq. Rolling with the ground campaign before the air campaign probably caught the saboteurs off guard. Also, no dams have been blown yet.

From all accounts, it appears that the special forces have been hugely successful in achieving their objectives. Hopefully, they have secured at least one of Hussein's archives.

It appears that the huge strategic risks have been retired in most part, except perhaps chem/bio weapons.

	28-03-2003 21:03									#67
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quote: Originally posted by muxec Coalition forces now suffer more cassaulties from theirselves, than from enemy. All muslims must be removed from US army.

Thanks for your opinion. That sort of bigoted crap doesn't fly here. And BTW, the ******* in question seems to have fragged his officers because he was *****ed up about slow promotions.

See you in a week.

	29-03-2003 00:20									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Indeed. Thanks to Jaakko for pointing out this extremely informative thread over on SDMB.

If this guy is on the level then it is even worse than I had feared. This is basically why I oppose the war and now I am even more convinced that it is a mistake borne of hubris.

	29-03-2003 02:13									#69
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As I see it, and correct me if I am wrong, the Medina Divsion is deployed on the left, Northern bank of the Eurphates above Kerbala. We may not be able to launch an attack across any bridges in Kerbala into a dug-in enemy. This is why the bridgehead at an Najaf is so important and why the Iraqi's are trying to retake it and/or blow it up.

	29-03-2003 21:26									#70
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat The fact that it's regulated by the government doesn't change the nature of the facility, any more than if it was a state-run food warehouse or hospital. For that matter, the local traffic court. Let me clarify - facilities which house government functions or functionaries which may have significance to their military capability are legit targets. Defense ministries, state-owned communications, production ministries, security and law enforcement organizations, and anything which houses any equipment or materiel with warfighting potential.

That's just a news station though. Since appearance of Saddam Hussein can be broadly covered under news, it seems to be stretching to call the news station a military target.

	30-03-2003 01:25									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger That's just a news station though. Since appearance of Saddam Hussein can be broadly covered under news, it seems to be stretching to call the news station a military target.

Some of the propoganda has included broad instructions of how to fight, thus becoming 'command and control'.

Plus... if it can broadcast TV, then it can broadcast on other bandwidths too, and could be broadcasting explicit instructions.

	30-03-2003 03:47									#72
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MtG, acttually, I heard that guy grenaded his comrades because he didn't want to kill his fellow muslims.

	30-03-2003 04:36									#73
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Whatever happened to the big collum of Iraqi troops reported heading south from Baghdad on Thursday? Did the air force plaster it?

	30-03-2003 04:47									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Whatever happened to the big collum of Iraqi troops reported heading south from Baghdad on Thursday? Did the air force plaster it?

That was "inaccurate intelligence." There never was a 1,000 vehicle column .

	30-03-2003 04:49									#75
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quote: That was "inaccurate intelligence."

Inaccurate intelligence sucks!
Inaccurate intelligence is more deadly than the Medina division.

	30-03-2003 07:37									#76
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quote: Originally posted by spiritof1202 Some of the propoganda has included broad instructions of how to fight, thus becoming 'command and control'.

I haven't seen any of that.

quote: Originally posted by spiritof1202 Plus... if it can broadcast TV, then it can broadcast on other bandwidths too, and could be broadcasting explicit instructions.

That is entirely possible, but it will be up to the coalition to show that this is in fact the case.

	30-03-2003 07:52									#77
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quote: Originally posted by carnide_ Inaccurate intelligence sucks! Inaccurate intelligence is more deadly than the Medina division.

Don't doubt it. Part of the problem is that since the end of the Cold War, the USA has relied more and more on "COMINT", "SIGINT", and "ELINT" intelligence resources, instead of having spies. Sometimes this can tell you what's going on, but not why it's happening. Sometimes our relience on non-HUMINT in an area is so great (as I suspect it is in Iraq) that when it's compromised we get confusing reports that can aggect the entire campaign.

	30-03-2003 08:01									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Odin MtG, acttually, I heard that guy grenaded his comrades because he didn't want to kill his fellow muslims.

What I've heard is that the guy was a long-time attitude problem who had issues with his not getting promoted, and he stated that blacks "have a hard time making rank." Not wanting to kill his fellow muslims wasn't likely an issue, because he'd run his mouth a couple of days before the fragging, so he was already under orders that he wouldn't move out with the rest of the 326th Engineers. That would indicate either he was going to be under an Article 15, or just on **** detail at the base camp in Kuwait.

	30-03-2003 08:03									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger That is entirely possible, but it will be up to the coalition to show that this is in fact the case.

Most Iraqi fixed communication facilities are dual use. We could show the world, or verify it wasn't a military target, one way or another, if the Iraqis would let 3 ID in to inspect and mark all military targets. Until they do that, we'll just have to bomb them based on the info we have, and sort it out later.