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Dauphin
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Caught in a tuna net
Jan 1970
time: 05:27
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As I said earlier, I believe the second coming of Christ (if it is to happen) will occur on a personnel level when you die. For that, by personal definition, is your end time and the journey you take to any afterlife will probably involve meeting your saviour (if He exists).
I don't believe that Jesus would come back to this world and demonstrate his divine nature.
Edit - Clarity
Last edited by Dauphin on 31-03-2003 at 21:16
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Frogman
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quote:
by Rufus
But I do remember an interesting argument that biblical scholar Elaine Pagels makes (in The Gnostic Gospels) that many, maybe even most, of the Biblical references to Christ's return imply that it will happen within the lifetimes of the apostles. Is that a reasonable reading? Because he's really, really late. |
Yes, a reasonable reading of the scriptures indicated that Christ would return before the generation that witnessed his death had passed away. Paul himself believed he was living in the last days and only at the end of his ministry did he come to believe that he was mistaken. Many early Christians sold all their possessions and were waiting for the second coming.
So are we living in the last days today? Don't make the same mistake they did. Then again, you never know when your last day will be.
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Dauphin
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Caught in a tuna net
Jan 1970
time: 05:27
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Babel fish logic.
I don't believe God will or ever has directly revealed himself. I believe that the universe obeys laws that are immutable, and that God will not interfere with them. He plays his hand within the bounds that he has set.
Bible stories that tell of God revealing himself are probably based on personal revelation or intuition. This may be considered 'divine', but there is always going to be a real-world explanation that can wave it away.
Last edited by Dauphin on 28-03-2003 at 17:44
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Lincoln
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quote:
Originally posted by obiwan18
Lincoln:
I think the manner of his return is up for grabs since a great deal of what we know comes from Revelations, which can be taken as mostly symbolic or completely literal.
BC:
I don't disagree, I'm interested in knowing why you think this. |
Lk:21:27: And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Acts:1:9: And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Acts:1:10: And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Acts:1:11: Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
----------------------------------
Pretty clear really.
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spiritof1202
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Jesus is coming in the next few weeks
spoiler(highlight to read):
To mow my lawn
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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:27
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BC:
I meant more along the lines, that do you expect to be bodily resurrected when you die, not just for Christ.
I certainly did not expect to hear you doubt Christ's resurrection.
quote:
More generally I am also a 'Doubting Thomas' in respect of the miracle acts that Jesus is supposed to have performed as described in the New Testament.
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Have you read the Doubting Thomas account in John?
John 20 24:29
Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"
But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."
A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
As for his miracles, that does not surprise me. What restrictions does science put upon itself? Can science tell us anything about the existence of a spiritual realm?
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Dauphin
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Caught in a tuna net
Jan 1970
time: 05:27
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quote:
Originally posted by obiwan18
BC:
I meant more along the lines, that do you expect to be bodily resurrected when you die, not just for Christ.
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I believe in an afterlife, probably in a heavenly sense. I do not think we will need our bodies, just our souls or essence.
quote:
I certainly did not expect to hear you doubt Christ's resurrection. |
I believe Jesus was resurrected. He was given up for dead by those that followed and loved him but then He was resurrected in the minds and souls of people who came after him. Whether Jesus physically rose from the dead is not important in my opinion.
quote:
Have you read the Doubting Thomas account in John? |
He required evidence to believe Jesus was resurrected. I too would need evidence to believe he was physically resurrect. Although I don't discount the possibility that he was physically among his disciples those times as described in the Bible, I think it unlikely. I have no trouble believing he was there in spirit at the times when they would discuss his deeds and come to the realisation of what He came here to do. I don't doubt that they probably believed they saw him on several occasions but ultimately it is unimportant to me whether he physically came back to them or if it was all in their minds, for the reasons I stated above.
quote:
As for his miracles, that does not surprise me. What restrictions does science put upon itself? Can science tell us anything about the existence of a spiritual realm? |
Nothing wrong with the miracles in a scientific sense other than they are unlikely - they could have happened, they probably did not. To focus on those actions is missing the reason why Jesus was here though - so I don't. The fact that he helped people and brought a message of peace, respect, love etc is the thing to focus on.
Edit - Clarity
Last edited by Dauphin on 31-03-2003 at 21:33
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Bereta_Eder
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BTW isn't their an oxymoron between christianity and judaism?
= christianity says the second coming of the mesiah will be preceded by the coming of the anti-christ. then christ comes in and kicks his butt.
but the jews expect the messiah who hasn't come to earth yet, and this could be the antichrist of the christians?
so the messiah of the jews is the anti-christ of the christians?
what's going on???!!!!
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Bereta_Eder
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Moneypenny,
divine providence saw fit that I remain present during these trying times.
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Bereta_Eder
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I'm solely the property of Ming's majesty.
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27-03-2003 18:42
I thought you were out for the duration of the war. 
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