28-03-2003 21:02									#31
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considering that some people are so repressed/inexperienced at sex that its causes them psychological problems when dealing with members of the opposite sex, then I'd say this kind of thing is good.

better a few offended people then lots of stunted lives.

	28-03-2003 21:05									#32
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I agree that any person with a properly functioning body and a partner can enjoy sex . What you do not know can be figured out pretty quickly through experimentation.

Sorry if I took your earlier comment wrong. It seemed to me you were slamming the idea of the course.

As for soc and psych, I don't buy into a lot of what goes on ( do all the people getting therapy need it really? for example) but I do accept them as legitimate fields of study.

	28-03-2003 21:13									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Elok, I know you feel personally insulted, but take a breath and think about what you're saying. Yes, sex is an instinct, like eating. That's a great analogy. You know why? Because Americans have probably the worst diets in the educated, industrialized world, in no small part because (1) they don't know jack about food, and (2) they mostly learn about food from the media, which seems to suggest that it's okay to exist entirely on a diet of pre-processed meat and cheese produts, followed by an obscenely sweet dessert and washed down with an absurdly caloric soft drink. No wonder we're the fattest nation on earth.

I'm American, and I know plenty about food. I know full well that shoving down calories of any kind will make me fat if I take too much. Most of my friends(yes, I do have them :lol are similarly aware. They print the food pyramid on the sides of cereal boxes and grocery bags, AND we get told all that stuff several times in various classes in school. The information is there; if people don't take advantage of it as it flies in their face, I say tough ****. I maintain the same for sex.
I responded to your other arguments(or at least I think I did) in my previous post, but I'd like to take this opportunity to admit that I borrowed the food analogy from C.S. Lewis's "The Four Loves." He added that, if you were to see a whole crowd of men eagerly gawking at a stage where they were slowly removing the wrapping from a hamburger, you would probably assume that those men had a problem, and not one having to do with inadequate education. The same should apply for the sexual equivalent. Our problem with sex as a society is a lot more deep-rooted than plain puritanism.
Okay, enough of the food analogy. I'm getting hungry.

	28-03-2003 21:48									#34
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This reminds me...
(site contains music and some half-censored nudity)

	28-03-2003 22:38									#35
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Un****ingbelievable.

It's an elective class, for the love of all that has ever been regarded as holy by anyone who has ever lived. If you don't like the content, drop the class!

ay yi yi...

	28-03-2003 23:10									#36
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Elok, you're being a little dense. You may no plenty about eating food, but that doesn't qualify you to be a dietician. Someone who is qualified to dispense medical advice about eating and diet is someone who has been educated and trained in it.

Similarly, anyone who is considering going into sexual therapy or any number of psychological/medical fields relating to sexual behavior would find such a course as this article states as very educational and important for their future careers. That is the point of college.

Since you're neither a sexologist nor someone who has taken the course (and neither is this dumb State Senator), you're speaking out of complete ignorance.

	29-03-2003 00:07									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Umm...how can this course exist if Kansas killed science? I'm assuming this class ostensibly has some scientific basis. What's sad is not this legislator's attempt to defund this nonsense, but that she's picking and choosing which courses get funded based on her own biases instead of totally defunding the college. If the school provides such a great service, let the people wanting that service pay for it themselves. Btw, I live in Kansas so I know the thread title is BS.

Chill, Berz. It was meant to be a humorous link to the not-so-distant time when Kansas was in the spotlight for its educational stance in regards to evolution/creationism. Lighten up for once, would ya?

That said, my own home state has been the nub of more than one joke, and I've learned not to freak out over it. Ain't good for the blood pressure.

Gatekeeper

	29-03-2003 00:12									#38
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Well...you're speaking out of ignorance too, insofar as you seem to have not read all of my posts, Mr. Boris. I have already said that I do not question the merits of the class in and of itself. I am responding to all the crap about how you need to take it to be sexually fulfilled and all that other Dr. Ruth jibber-jabber. Actually, while we're on the subject, I would say the only actual "sex professionals" out there are prostitutes, sex being a rather hands(or other body part)-on sort of study, but all that's neither here nor there. Please don't be so quick to accuse next time.

	29-03-2003 00:14									#39
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Keeper, you ignore certain points in the article, and twist others.

Hmm ... the last time I checked, I hadn't really posted my whole, complete thoughts on the article because, frankly, I posted it as a "light-hearted" alternative to all the serious war topics we've had of late.

YOO-HOO! Do any of you boys know how to have a frickin' good laugh anymore? KNOCK-KNOCK! Anybody home?!

Good grief.

Gatekeeper

	29-03-2003 00:20									#40
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That does it! I'm going to my local public university and *demanding* that they drop that OFFENSIVE ELECTIVE religous class that I'm not even required to take because I'm not a religion major, let alone a minor!

That'll show 'em who's boss!

Gatekeeper

	29-03-2003 00:26									#41
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quote: Azazel, you're a self-proclaimed Communist. That says it all.

what does it say?

	29-03-2003 01:49									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel what does it say?

That you probably get more good sex than the rest of us.

	29-03-2003 02:28									#43
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I love the buzzwords:

quote: You don't understand how understanding the development of our sexual organs could help us understand our sexuality?

'Understanding our sexuality?'

Sounds like a pretty cushy course for university degree credit.

I can see sex education as a seminar provided by the health clinic on campus, but as an independent course, allowing for credit? That I find hard to believe.

No wonder the class is so popular, I'd take it too if I could milk the course for credits towards my degree.

I still have not got a straight answer. Besides teaching students how to make out with each other more efficiently, what else does the course provide? I think that students can learn this on their own time.

Are these student's studying to become public health officials, where they learn how to help people with STD's and other problems?

Finally, looking at pictures of young girls developing...

Fine if you are planning to be a doctor or a pedriatrician, but otherwise?

	29-03-2003 03:16									#44
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I wonder if now would be the time to state that I was required to take a human sexuality class as part of the undergraduate-graduate medical school program I was in...

Quick poll. Has anyone else who has posted on this thread taken a human sexuality course in college?

	29-03-2003 03:18									#45
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Nope.

I'm a history major.

I'm not interested in esoteric subjects such as sociology.

	29-03-2003 03:19									#46
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I was also a history major.

And if you haven't taken a human sexuality course, what on earth makes you qualified to speak as to the academic merits of such a course?

	29-03-2003 03:23									#47
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quote: No wonder we're the fattest nation on earth.

Actually we aren't . There are South Pacific countries that are fatter because they believe that look is good.

quote: If this stuff was kiddie porn ( the possession of which is illegal in a lot of places) I would see a problem.

I think pictures of the genitals of 5 and 10 year olds comes very, very close to kiddie porn, and that is my main complaint (well that and this class being a total waste of money ).

I have to agree with obiwan. I had friends who took the human sexuality class (guess why they took it). It simply seemed like a course on, as obiwan put it, more efficient ways of making out. It seems like a waste to me, but if the University wants it, who am I to say otherwise?

	29-03-2003 03:33									#48
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guynemer:

quote: And if you haven't taken a human sexuality course, what on earth makes you qualified to speak as to the academic merits of such a course?

Where have I said that the course is useless, according to my authority?

"Besides teaching students how to make out with each other more efficiently, what else does the course provide?"

This is not a rhetorical question, guynemer. I want to know what are the benefits of the course.

Since you have taken the course, how did the course help you to become a doctor?

	29-03-2003 03:35									#49
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Well, my mother did a report on sexuality in long-term care(i.e. nursing homes-it's not a graphic description so I escaped sans blinding mental images)...does that count?
And, as an English major, I am completely free of the wicked tyranny of facts. Actually, I'm not so sure why we're so picky that people be adequately informed about this, but not in all the other topics. Like the "what should we do in Iraq" topics. Dozens of people who get all their info from the daily news, the same wacky folks who told us Y2K would kill us all and bombard us daily with "human-interest" yellow journalism tearjerker crap--dozens of people who have probably never been to Iraq, receive no Intel reports, and spend a few minutes of their spare time thinking it over, all doing their best to second-guess people who ponder all possibilities for days and weeks at a time. That's not what I call an informed opinion, and nobody sweats it there; why here? Welcome to American debate. We conjecture, we stereotype, we make ad hominem assaults without provocation(just like I did right now, applying blanket terms to the whole American population. It's fun and easy!). If you're gonna fight that power, why doncha fight it everywhere, with consistency?
Does anyone see what I'm getting at?

I'm not sure I do. I'd better shut up now.

	29-03-2003 03:42									#50
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I did not take the sex psych course but did see the relevant text. It was far from a course on making out and while there was a chapter on sexual positions the prof neither lectured nor tested that topic as he believed it was " the most studied chapter in the history of this university".

The remainder of the materials/lectiures were a combination of sociology and psychology. I believe there were discussions of homosexuality ( genetic vs environment arguments presented), sexual norms across cultures and across time periods, the biological processes that go into desire, sexual disfunction ( both physical and pschological), transgendered persons and on and on.

The fact that the subject matter was popular does not mean they are any less worthy of study. if a film school wanted to study pornographic films or some literature or art class decided to study comic books, thats fine too.

I don't know whether this particular class is valuable of not, I've never attended. All I am saying is that there is ample material in the field of sexual psychology/ sociology to be worth a stand-alone course. If the course is seen as easy, thats a function of the professor, not the material

Last edited by Flubber on 29-03-2003 at 03:47

	29-03-2003 03:45									#51
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 guynemer: This is not a rhetorical question, guynemer. I want to know what are the benefits of the course.

Thats a tough test to meet. Heres a short list of courses that have been of no benefit to me as a lawyer

Math
Physics
Chemistry


Did that make them unworthy of study??

	29-03-2003 03:47									#52
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People should attempt to be adequately informed about all subjects that affect their lives on a daily basis. Sex, being as how it is an integral part of human experience, most assuredly affects us everyday.

The complaint from the state senator was that such material was "obscene" and therefore should not be taught, at least not with the government attached to it. This sort of thing needs to go away.

Sex is a part of life, a large part of life, because everyday the sexual urge to procreate affects how we interact with each other. It should not be something repressed and hidden away. Repression and fear is what leads to child molesters and people with sexual identity crises.

Not everyone needs to know all of this to function in society, but people should not shudder away from it just because it's got the word sex in the title.

	29-03-2003 03:49									#53
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Are you kidding, obiwan?

How did the human sexuality course help me?

Talking to patients about sexuality transmitted diseases
Talking to patients about their sexual history
Talking to patients about risk factors
Understanding the psychology of people when it comes to sexual issues
Talking to adolescents about sexuality
Talking to children about sexual abuse
Talking to women and men about rape

I could go on for another halfhour or so, but I wouldn't want to bore anyone with such useless information.

	29-03-2003 03:51									#54
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quote: The complaint from the state senator was that such material was "obscene" and therefore should not be taught, at least not with the government attached to it.

IIRC, she said SOME of it was obscene.

	29-03-2003 03:52									#55
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And how is human development obscene?

	29-03-2003 03:54									#56
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Flubber:

guynemer said that he is a medical student, so my question is valid. Doctor can use this information everyday.

quote: Did that make them unworthy of study??

Did you take these at a university level?

Do the majority of the students taking the course find them useful for their occupation?

I'm a history major, likely working in research, and I will say that my training in sciences has helped me to structure my questions, as well as my way of thinking.

What about this course? Why are the majority of the students taking the course? Are they trying to become doctors, or looking for more efficient ways to make out?

	29-03-2003 03:57									#57
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Obi, do you honestly think that class in Kansas is about how to "make out"? 'cuz, if so, I may just have some exciting investment opportunities to share with you.

	29-03-2003 03:57									#58
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guynemer:

I'm not a doctor, so thank you very much.

This should have been your first argument, rather than the knee-jerk 'you've not taken the course, so how do you know?'

	29-03-2003 03:59									#59
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quote: And how is human development obscene?

Are you serious, now?!

Pictures of naked children that borden on child porn, showing pornographic videos? The sex class we had at our university had on its test pictures which you'd have to property identify. **** rings, Prince Albert piercings, nipple and clit piercings were all part of it. You don't think that ordinary people would consider the obscene?

	29-03-2003 04:02									#60
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Exactly why did the pictures of children border on porn?

Ordinary people might find it obscene? Sure. Ordinary people might find a lot of the content of university classes obscene. What makes that any different?