29-03-2003 06:25									#91
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Well, that's pretty odd, I can read and write since I was 6 years old, okay not perfectly but after a few years you should at least get the hang of it. How the hell can you manage to not be able to do it that well in all those years at school.. you'd have to be a complete dumbass for it, and you shouldn't belong in a normal school but in some sort of special school

Unfortunately I don't know that Dexter
Besides when you're in class you never have to come to the blackboard and write things down? seems pretty obvious to me

	29-03-2003 08:46									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Guynemer - Try looking up where Kansas ranks in education before laughing too hard.

It's called a joke, Berz. If case you didn't notice, I slammed Michigan legislators as well. I was merely making reference to all the controversies surrounding education in Kansas... try some deep breathing exercises, then reflect on this whole thing. It's funny!


And if you don't think so, then...

POOPIES!

See? Funny. A little whimsy never hurt anyone.

	29-03-2003 08:52									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus Oh - My - God how can you graduate when you don't know how to write and read properly

Lincoln was making a grossly inaccurate statement to try and slam public education, that's all. It's not remotely true.

	29-03-2003 08:57									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus Well, that's pretty odd, I can read and write since I was 6 years old, okay not perfectly but after a few years you should at least get the hang of it. How the hell can you manage to not be able to do it that well in all those years at school.. you'd have to be a complete dumbass for it, and you shouldn't belong in a normal school but in some sort of special school Unfortunately I don't know that Dexter Besides when you're in class you never have to come to the blackboard and write things down? seems pretty obvious to me

Sorry, I should have clarified. Dexter was a famous, flamboyant NFL football player who admitted late in his career that he was basically illiterate. His story, IIRC, was that no one had bothered making sure he knew how to read and write in college - they were more concerned that he play well.

Anyway, point being, illiteracy problems in Canada (and in the US) get glossed over. I'm shocked by some of the letters I see coming from professionals. Sure, they're intelligent and relatively eloquent people to hear them speak, but many of them can't construct a sentence or spell at a high school level.

	29-03-2003 10:13									#95
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Guynemer -

quote: It's called a joke...It's funny!

If you say so

	29-03-2003 11:45									#96
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By the time I was 18 I already knew all about the Birds and the Bees. My parents told me about the role of the Stork in delivering babies to the doctor who would then bring them into the household in his doctor's bag and give them to the happy mother to be.

I don't think that we really need sex education in this day and age.

Plus I think we should organize a petition to oust Santa from his capitalist exploitative slave labor cartel, and bust the Tooth Fairy for harvesting human ivory for pitiful sums of pocket change.

	29-03-2003 11:58									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Lincoln was making a grossly inaccurate statement to try and slam public education, that's all. It's not remotely true.

Boris, my sense is that my politics are pretty close to yours and very far away from Lincoln's, but here I have to agree with him. I spent the first 10 years of my university teaching career at public universities, where my students were overwhwelmingly the products of US public schools, and many simply could not read complex material (anything written above the level of a newspaper) and couldn't write in grammatically-correct English (language and punctuation being equally difficult for them). They'd been passed through the public education system because it was easier to do that than to fail them year after year and risk lawsuits -- really. And they'd found their way into college because colleges have found themselves over-built and over-staffed ever since the baby boomers graduated, and they need warm bodies. I would also say, however, thaat most of these kids weren't dumb; but they were ill-prepared for a university education.

	29-03-2003 12:35									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Gate - You don't even understand the evolution/creation issue here, so displaying your ignorance while chastising Kansans is par for the course you've chosen.

Geez, Berz. You're a crabapple today, aren't you?

And I haven't "chastized" Kansans in this thread yet, but if you really want me to fulfill the expectation thereof ... FINE! All Kansans are crabapples, just like you, Berz! Crabapples, I tell ya! Crabby, crabby, crabby!

quote: Since a "B" was probably close to the average score in your class, I'll conclude you are average.

Heh. Better than below average.

	29-03-2003 15:35									#99
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Hmm...I'm not the one who started a thread griping about Kansas, methinks you're projecting.

	29-03-2003 17:41									#100
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Genitalia of children should be cut out from medical books! Freakin' pedophile medicine students!

	29-03-2003 17:56									#101
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I haven't read the entire thread yet (I'm a public school graduate ) but I don't see much comment on the 'killed science' aspect of this discussion. The last I heard, Kansas was just trying to allow the possibilities of intelligent design into the discussion of science. Has anyone (Berzerker?) heard the latest on this?

	29-03-2003 18:03									#102
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quote: Originally posted by CyberGnu As for the argument that the less "valuable" classes should be eliminated first... Shouldn't the entire arts & letters department go before they touch a social science course?

Great. You'll have a population of illiterates ready to unleash upon the world. Sociologists perform their function, and probably a valuable one, somehow, but getting rid of English is ridiculous. Like Rufus said, a large number of people graduate high school without learning how to read and write. Somebody's gotta teach 'em.
And, for the record, I'd like to say that I agree with Berzerker, on this at least. The media really oversimplified the Kansas evolution case, from what I hear.

	29-03-2003 23:55									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Hmm...I'm not the one who started a thread griping about Kansas, methinks you're projecting.

Griping about Kansas, eh? Heh. The last time I checked, the story was about a specific class at a specific university having its funding cut because a specific legislative member thought it was the right thing to do. Shucks. I guess I should've created a three- or four-line topic headline in order to be clear, lest folks think I was attacking the essence of Kansas. My, where's a lawyer when you need one to write a politically correct non-offensive headline?

But if you want to interpret the topic headline and article as a general assault on everything dear that's Kansas, go ahead. I'll just keep laughing, 'cause you're a *great* rep for the state of Kansas.

Gatekeeper

	30-03-2003 03:50									#104
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Lincoln -

quote: I haven't read the entire thread yet (I'm a public school graduate ) but I don't see much comment on the 'killed science' aspect of this discussion.

That's because Gatekeeper now claims it was all a joke and not to be taken seriously.

quote: The last I heard, Kansas was just trying to allow the possibilities of intelligent design into the discussion of science. Has anyone (Berzerker?) heard the latest on this?

Much less benign than even that, the state school board (not lawmakers) no longer required a question about evolution to be on the statewide graduation test. They didn't say evolution could not be taught and the fact is evolution is not taught much except for advanced placement science students in genetics classes. I went to school in California and we were never taught about evolution except for advanced science students - the same situation as here in Kansas. The members of the board came under attack by the evolution crowd using the same hysterical slogans as Gatekeeper and were defeated in elections so it's back to the way it was before.

Gatekeeper -

quote: Griping about Kansas, eh? Heh. The last time I checked, the story was about a specific class at a specific university having its funding cut because a specific legislative member thought it was the right thing to do.

Then you made a mistake in your title to the thread.

quote: Shucks. I guess I should've created a three- or four-line topic headline in order to be clear, lest folks think I was attacking the essence of Kansas.

Or you could have left the "killed science" nonsense out of your title.

quote: My, where's a lawyer when you need one to write a politically correct non-offensive headline?

You need a lawyer to produce a truthful title?

quote: But if you want to interpret the topic headline and article as a general assault on everything dear that's Kansas, go ahead. I'll just keep laughing, 'cause you're a *great* rep for the state of Kansas.

I can recognise the BS you posted, the fact you cannot is hardly reason to applaud your intellectual prowess.

	30-03-2003 04:07									#105
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This discussion is silly in the first place because of people who think that the science of sexual psychology and behaviour amounts to "the art of new positions" or an article in some cheap woman's magazine.

It's psychology, sociology mostly, with some physiology.

	30-03-2003 05:34									#106
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quote: Great. You'll have a population of illiterates ready to unleash upon the world. Sociologists perform their function, and probably a valuable one, somehow, but getting rid of English is ridiculous. Like Rufus said, a large number of people graduate high school without learning how to read and write. Somebody's gotta teach 'em.

I'm sorry, that was intended to be ironic... If you read my other posts on the subject, you'd see that I don't advocate striking any classes from the curriculum...

	30-03-2003 16:55									#107
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Oh. Sorry, Gnu. Gee, this foot in my mouth tastes great...

	31-03-2003 04:37									#108
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Genitalia of children should be cut out from children. That would stop them developing troublesome masturbation habits and praise the name of the Lord.

	31-03-2003 05:16									#109
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The only good sex education class was the one portrayed in Monty Python's The Meaning of Life

	31-03-2003 05:26									#110
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cybergnu:

I'm not sure how much the budget of the arts classes were cut, but the overall effects have been much more noticeable for the sciences.

As for bias, I've been in both the sciences and arts, but admittedly, not in social sciences. Still, I do believe it is more expensive to run the typical social science class, then for English or History.

quote: However, most uni's don't have a clear view on what they do want to accomplish...

It would probably be better to have universities close to each other specialise, according to the facilities available. This way each university could better address a particular course simply through economy of scale. For BC, I would have UBC do most of the technical courses, while SFU could take most of the arts students.

	31-03-2003 17:15									#111
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I can't believe that people here actually are siding with the senator.

quote: where my students were overwhwelmingly the products of US public schools, and many simply could not read complex material (anything written above the level of a newspaper)

Thats a scary thought. Newsapapers are generally written to a third-grader's level of English, so a large number of people not being able to read above that level speaks volumes.

Ali

	31-03-2003 20:05									#112
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There is a time and a place for everything. It's called college.

to those fighting the good fight in this thread, by calling an idjit an idjit (yes, folks, the right honorable Senatorial idjit).

-Arrian