29-03-2003 04:02									#61
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x-post earlier.

quote: Obi, do you honestly think that class in Kansas is about how to "make out"?

That was the only argument brought up before to defend the course.

And BTW- I mentioned that the course should be useful to doctors.

Why should this be taught as a course for credit and not a seminar on the student's time?

And you didn't answer my question. Why do the majority of the students take the class, over lets say, classical poets?

	29-03-2003 04:08									#62
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Flubber: guynemer said that he is a medical student, so my question is valid. Doctor can use this information everyday. [QUOTE] Originally posted by obiwan18 Originally posted by obiwan18 [/SIZE]Did you take these at a university level?

Yes.

quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Do the majority of the students taking the course find them useful for their occupation?

I don't know and to me its irrelevant to whether something is worthy of study. I may take a literature course now out of interest or for enjoyment with no hope of career usefulness. IMHO thats a very narrow view of what university education should be

quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 I'm a history major, likely working in research, and I will say that my training in sciences has helped me to structure my questions, as well as my way of thinking.

I would not dispute that although a course in reasonoing or problem solving could have been more directly useful. I'm sure a sex psych couse could be useful-- the doctor already mentioned several uses for him.

quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 What about this course? Why are the majority of the students taking the course? Are they trying to become doctors, or looking for more efficient ways to make out?

Does it matter?? LOts of people might take a literature class because the prof is cute, or their best friend is taking the class or class does not start till 2, or tests are multiple choice or the prof is known as an easy marker. None of these motives matter. The question is whether there is subject matter worthy of and appropriate to study. IMHO the answer is clearly YES. Whether the class cited in the original post is actually doing so . . . . is something only people that attend the class can declare.

	29-03-2003 04:08									#63
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quote: Ordinary people might find a lot of the content of university classes obscene. What makes that any different?

You specifically asked how is this obscene, didn't you?

	29-03-2003 04:13									#64
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Why should this be taught as a course for credit and not a seminar on the student's time?

What? Why should any course be taught for credit?

quote: And you didn't answer my question. Why do the majority of the students take the class, over lets say, classical poets?

****, they can't take both? I took human sexuality, organic chemistry, advanced physics, Shakespeare, history of the Byzantine Empire, 1970s American film, and tons of other stuff. College is all about exploring knowledge and learning as many different and disparate things as you can, to broaden yourself and open up your mind. I recommend you give it a shot.

	29-03-2003 04:15									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Ordinary people might find a lot of the content of university classes obscene. What makes that any different? You specifically asked how is this obscene, didn't you?

But what makes this so different that there has to be a legislative brouhaha over it?

Besides the fact, obviously, that this happened in Kansas.

	29-03-2003 04:15									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer College is all about exploring knowledge and learning as many different and disparate things as you can, to broaden yourself and open up your mind. I recommend you give it a shot.

	29-03-2003 04:16									#67
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Gatekeeper -

quote: Chill, Berz. It was meant to be a humorous link to the not-so-distant time when Kansas was in the spotlight for its educational stance in regards to evolution/creationism. Lighten up for once, would ya? That said, my own home state has been the nub of more than one joke, and I've learned not to freak out over it. Ain't good for the blood pressure.

So I can't even point out the BS you post without blowing a fuse? Gee, I'll try to keep my cool, that title sure represents the truth and we should all applaud you for your ability to cut through the chaff and and educate us all on the state of education in Kansas.

Oh yeah, it was all a joke.

BS

	29-03-2003 04:19									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Gatekeeper - ...on the state of education in Kansas.

I just thought of a great slogan for your state, Berz.


"Kansas -- The State of Education"

	29-03-2003 04:22									#69
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quote: College is all about exploring knowledge and learning as many different and disparate things as you can, to broaden yourself and open up your mind. I recommend you give it a shot.

Guynemer:

Nice ad-hominem thrown in there. I disagree with you, so I am 'closed minded?'

Our universities are hard up for funds.

Should we spend money on courses such as this as opposed to Chemistry Labs or Physics Labs?

I agree, money notwithstanding, the purpose of the university should be to open minds.

But when funding gets short, the universities have to make choices on what the can or cannot provide.

quote: Why should any course receive funding?

That's a good question.

quote: posted by Flubber: The question is whether there is subject matter worthy of and appropriate to study.

And here is your answer.

Is the study into human sexuality worthy and appropriate to study, more so than physics or chemistry?

Who decides? The university administration?

Is this an arbitrary standard?

	29-03-2003 04:23									#70
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Tell me about it, Berz. Next thing you know, they'll insist on teaching that Earth isn't a sphere in Kansas! Which it isn't, BTW.

Elsewhere ... someone in the thread asked earlier about who had taken a sexuality course in college, and I did. I got a "B" in the course, so draw your own conclusions from that.

Gatekeeper

	29-03-2003 04:29									#71
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I, naturally, got an A.




Obiwan, since when did the issue become whether or not the university can afford, financially, to offer the class? This isn't about cash, it's about politics.

I'm truly sorry your university is strapped for cash.

	29-03-2003 04:39									#72
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Since my uni had to cut back on the labs for Physics students and Chemistry students.

I'm just trying to take the question to my situation, at least here in BC.

I'd rather spend money on those then courses as the above, because I feel those courses are more valuable.

Don't you?

	29-03-2003 04:47									#73
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quote: But what makes this so different that there has to be a legislative brouhaha over it?

You don't think other states have tried things like this. They've usually been unsuccessful, so it hasn't made the news. There are obviously some people who don't like what has been called 'obscene' to be taught in a state university.

	29-03-2003 04:52									#74
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Obi, what courses are offered is seldom set at a course level. Normally the physical sciences get one chunk of money, the social sciences another chunk, the arts a third and so on. The size of the chunk normally represents the number of studens enrolled and what image the university wants to present. Most uni's don't have a specific image, although there are notable exceptions (here at CalTech, for example).

So the cutback on chemistry is probably not because the uni value chemistry less, it is a question about how many students are interested. I know it sucks if you are in chemistry (and I've complained bitterly about how I was forced to take "art history" instead of "environmental science" at one point), but that is the reality.

	29-03-2003 04:54									#75
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As for the argument that the less "valuable" classes should be eliminated first... Shouldn't the entire arts & letters department go before they touch a social science course?

	29-03-2003 05:02									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: But what makes this so different that there has to be a legislative brouhaha over it? You don't think other states have tried things like this. They've usually been unsuccessful, so it hasn't made the news. There are obviously some people who don't like what has been called 'obscene' to be taught in a state university.

Oh, I know things go on like this in other states. Not to long ago, Michigan legislators got their collective panties in a twist over a course here at U-M, titled "How To Be Gay."

Now, obviously, this was not a course in how to be gay; it was just a clever name for a course exploring homosexuality in American society. But may the merciful heavens protect the brave soul who tries to use logic to counter the inane ramblings and ranting of selfimportant politicians.


Frankly, these are exactly the kinds of people who ought to have taken a human sexuality course when they were in college. Or, at the very least, an anatomy course--they could have learned how to pull those big sticks out of their asses.

	29-03-2003 05:04									#78
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quote: Normally the physical sciences get one chunk of money, the social sciences another chunk, the arts a third and so on. The size of the chunk normally represents the number of studens enrolled and what image the university wants to present.

cybergnu:

Actually, there are a large number of chemistry students. This argument is more valid for the Physics majors since there are not that many.

Part of the problem is that the university is strapped for funds all around, and has to make some choices on where to cut back. Rather than cut a course out entirely, they just nibble at the edges.

The problem with nibbling at the Chem labs is that fewer students will come to UBC if they feel their coursework is useless.

But if what you say is true, would that not lower the reputation of the university, to only fund those courses where most students are enrolled? Clearly, there has to be some concern for what the university wants to accomplish, not just the laws of supply and demand.

quote: Shouldn't the entire arts & letters department go before they touch a social science course?

That brings up the old joke:

What's the difference between Philosophy and Math? To do math, all you need is a chalkboard and a wastepaper basket.

To do philosophy, you don't even need the wastepaper basket.

These courses are cheap, and quite popular.
Social science courses are more expensive, and in the eyes of many academics, less valuable than history or english.

	29-03-2003 05:11									#79
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The decision as to what courses are offered by a particular university should be made by the university's governing body, not by some politician who's just looking to score some points with her more narrow minded constituents.

	29-03-2003 05:19									#80
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Guynemer :

Hmm, we have a gay guy in the lab, and he really needs this course. He so... non-gay. I don't think I've seen him in bottomless chaps even once...

	29-03-2003 05:20									#81
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Six Thousand Year Old Man: True, but you are forgetting one thing: Your user name is invalid in Kansas, since that means you were born before Creation...

But apart from that, right on

	29-03-2003 05:28									#82
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quote: Originally posted by CyberGnu Six Thousand Year Old Man: True, but you are forgetting one thing: Your user name is invalid in Kansas, since that means you were born before Creation...

It sure feels that way, sometimes

Funny how many people say this sort of course isn't needed in order to have a good sex life, when one considers the number of people who, when polled, say they don't have a good sex life.

It may not be 'needed', but it might help some people

	29-03-2003 05:30									#83
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quote: Originally posted by CyberGnu Guynemer : Hmm, we have a gay guy in the lab, and he really needs this course. He so... non-gay. I don't think I've seen him in bottomless chaps even once...

	29-03-2003 05:33									#84
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Obiwan:

quote: Actually, there are a large number of chemistry students. This argument is more valid for the Physics majors since there are not that many. Part of the problem is that the university is strapped for funds all around, and has to make some choices on where to cut back. Rather than cut a course out entirely, they just nibble at the edges.

That's how uni's work, unfortunately... Question is, if they cut back, did they do it ONLY for the physical sciences? My guess is that all the departments got less money, and it was up to the Science department to figure out whee to cut...

quote: The problem with nibbling at the Chem labs is that fewer students will come to UBC if they feel their coursework is useless.

Well, that is true in all disciplines, right?

quote: But if what you say is true, would that not lower the reputation of the university, to only fund those courses where most students are enrolled? Clearly, there has to be some concern for what the university wants to accomplish, not just the laws of supply and demand.

Oh, defiently, and I think I mentioned that in my first post, didn't I? However, most uni's don't have a clear view on what they do want to accomplish...

quote: What's the difference between Philosophy and Math? To do math, all you need is a chalkboard and a wastepaper basket. To do philosophy, you don't even need the wastepaper basket.

*sssssh, agathon will hear you*

quote: These courses are cheap, and quite popular. Social science courses are more expensive, and in the eyes of many academics, less valuable than history or english.

Well, people tend to be biased towards their own field, right?

	29-03-2003 05:56									#85
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Why, ignoring religius values or a moral system born out of religous values, is sexually explicit content obscene?

I say ignore religion because this is a state university, in which religion plays no part at all.

	29-03-2003 06:05									#86
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Guynemer - Try looking up where Kansas ranks in education before laughing too hard.

Gate -

quote: Tell me about it, Berz. Next thing you know, they'll insist on teaching that Earth isn't a sphere in Kansas! Which it isn't, BTW.

You don't even understand the evolution/creation issue here, so displaying your ignorance while chastising Kansans is par for the course you've chosen.

quote: Elsewhere ... someone in the thread asked earlier about who had taken a sexuality course in college, and I did. I got a "B" in the course, so draw your own conclusions from that.

Since a "B" was probably close to the average score in your class, I'll conclude you are average.

	29-03-2003 06:16									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln Public school graduates often cannot even read or write properly yet they insist on teaching this garbage.

Oh - My - God

how can you graduate when you don't know how to write and read properly

	29-03-2003 06:21									#88
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I'll post my completely uninteresting and useless opinion on this too

Learning this in courses related to Biology would be fine, for example the diseases and how it functions etc. Other than that I don't think it necessary, I'm sure most people in college know how a **** looks like, and I'm pretty sure most people know how **** works.

I mean, if you haven't ever been on a porn site before (which is not easy to avoid nowadays, especially when searching for a crack or serial ) you've surely seen it on tv before

I don't really see the point of the class, and guess what i'm not a conservative guy!

	29-03-2003 06:22									#89
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Because it's not a very good system. Almost all can read and write, however, just not very well.

	29-03-2003 06:24									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus Oh - My - God how can you graduate when you don't know how to write and read properly

But what if you can get 13 sacks a season, like Dexter Manley?

Priorities, man. Priorities.