29-03-2003 03:39									#31
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Oh sloww..you rednecks can make fun of minorities and city liberals and we can't make fun of rednecks? How sporting of you.

	29-03-2003 03:41									#32
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quote: Oh sloww..you rednecks can make fun of minorities and city liberals and we can't make fun of rednecks? How sporting of you.

That was the main problem with your statement. The two Republican partisans (which did not incluse Sloww, btw) did NOT mention minorities, etc. They simply taunted the Democrat base as being dumb. Now if you had said Republicans were lacking in civics education, it would have been ok. But you said 'NASCAR crowd', basically saying that rednecks are dumb. If I said minorities are dumb, there would have been Hell to pay. Why not the other way around?

	29-03-2003 03:43									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer People have a RIGHT to vote; it's not dependant on IQ or social status or keeping up on current events.

I would have thought that Florida would have proved that already.

	29-03-2003 03:45									#34
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**** Dino, if this thread had gone more than another two or three replies without someone making that joke, I was gonna do it myself.

	29-03-2003 03:45									#35
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Wow..I am so unconvinced. I agree Sloww did not start it, yet he failed to castigate the initiators.

Don't start a flame war if you don't intend to get hit back, i say.


The sad thing is that given cuts in education, civis lessons and hisotry lessons are declining rapidly, even in the most exclusive private high schools. People in this country seem too uninterested in their civic duties and history.

	29-03-2003 03:49									#36
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Well, GePap, your statement was unfortunate. I even winced as I read that. And I can definetly see why Sloww would get offended over that statement (where saying Republicans aren't well versed in civics wouldn't have produced such a blacklash).

It is one thing saying 'Republicans' and another saying the 'NASCAR crowd'. That's like the difference between saying 'Democrats' and 'black people'.

	29-03-2003 03:52									#37
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[troll]
Imran, are you saying that all NASCAR fans are white people?
[/troll]

	29-03-2003 03:56									#38
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I'll answer it anyway (though you already know the answer you Doctor of Love ).

The 'NASCAR crowd' terminology is shorthand for 'redneck white Republican', just like 'Welfare mothers' is shorthand for 'black unemployed single mother'.

Both are hateful terms and I don't think it is shocking that people would get offended over them. Remember, 'cracker' is a similar insult as 'nigger'.

	29-03-2003 03:57									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Well, GePap, your statement was unfortunate. I even winced as I read that. And I can definetly see why Sloww would get offended over that statement (where saying Republicans aren't well versed in civics wouldn't have produced such a blacklash). It is one thing saying 'Republicans' and another saying the 'NASCAR crowd'. That's like the difference between saying 'Democrats' and 'black people'.

Last I heard, NASCAR is becoming popular all over the country. Basically what you are saying is: we insulted whole groups of people accross several lines based on thier poltical views, and that's fine..but dont you dare insult the fans of a sporting event that might be more concentrated in certaint parts of the nations, cause that is like racism? Boo Hoo Hoo. Well, i am a democract, and if someone insults me, I will insult back. Our side did not start, your side did.

	29-03-2003 03:57									#40
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I don't know, I was actually thinking about it the other day, and I was thinking maybe a civics exam might be good. It'd keep a lot of those rural hicks from voting. They'd probably elect Howdy Doody if he ran... oh, wait, they did.

Maybe they should also make voting mandatory too... like they do back in Brazil. Of course, a lot of people would be exempt because they weren't educated enough to pass the exam.

	29-03-2003 03:59									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I'll answer it anyway (though you already know the answer you Doctor of Love ). The 'NASCAR crowd' terminology is shorthand for 'redneck white Republican', just like 'Welfare mothers' is shorthand for 'black unemployed single mother'. Both are hateful terms and I don't think it is shocking that people would get offended over them. Remember, 'cracker' is a similar insult as 'nigger'.

Excellent reply. You are indeed powerful, young one.

Though I know this is neither here nor there, might I get you to concede that 'redskin' is a similar insult, and caricatures such as Cleveland's Chief Wahoo is along the same lines?

	29-03-2003 04:01									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I'll answer it anyway (though you already know the answer you Doctor of Love ). The 'NASCAR crowd' terminology is shorthand for 'redneck white Republican', just like 'Welfare mothers' is shorthand for 'black unemployed single mother'. Both are hateful terms and I don't think it is shocking that people would get offended over them. Remember, 'cracker' is a similar insult as 'nigger'.

Bull excrement!

If someone said welfare mothers, you know of what i think? Welfare mothers..not "poor black women:,cause you know what? I am smart enough to know that many poor whites are on welfare as well. "redneck" is no more hurtful than Yuppie, pinko, commie, or any other terms thornw around. It certainly does not equal "nigger" or "cracker" or any other hurtful temrs. Now all of a sudden we see Imran care about "political correctness"? how convinient.

	29-03-2003 04:03									#43
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quote: Though I know this is neither here nor there, might I get you to concede that 'redskin' is a similar insult, and caricatures such as Cleveland's Chief Wahoo is along the same lines?

You may . Though I'm really not sure what to do about it, since a majority of people don't want them changed. You can't really force it upon people (and I don't want to force people not to say 'NASCAR crowd' if they want... that is their right).

A new name for the Redskins and a new mascot/symbol for the Indians (which I don't consider an offensive name) would be ok by me.

	29-03-2003 04:06									#44
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quote: If someone said welfare mothers, you know of what i think? Welfare mothers..not "poor black women:,cause you know what? I am smart enough to know that many poor whites are on welfare as well.

BULLSHIT! What did you think when Republicans talked about 'welfare mothers'? I bet it was just like other lefties who concluded he was talking about blacks.

quote: "redneck" is no more hurtful than Yuppie, pinko, commie, or any other terms thornw around.

Ask a redneck how he thinks.

quote: Now all of a sudden we see Imran care about "political correctness"? how convinient.

I already have said you have the right to say it and if you want to do so, I won't stop you. I ain't gonna shut you up or tell you to shut up, so it isn't political correctness.

Besides, the essense of PC is to stop debate on a topic, because someone might be offended by it. Go ahead, say that Southern Republicans (or rednecks) are dumb. I won't make you shut up, just telling you that your choice of words was unfortunate.

	29-03-2003 04:08									#45
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Sorry GeGap. Imran is right on this--"welfare mothers" is code for blacks. When a politician says that phrase, that is what he is talking about--those damned black folks.

In the gubernatorial election here in Michigan last year, Jennifer Granholm was absolutely killing her Republican opponent, **** Posthumus. (What a name, eh?) A few weeks before the election, Granholm was up 15 or so points. Then Posthumus started running ads that had codewords for "blacks"--"welfare mothers," "Detroit," "reparations."

The final result: Granholm 51%, Posthumus 48%. Those codewords exist, and as evidenced here in Michigan, they can work. There is still a lot of racism in this country, most of it latent--but some of it ain't.

	29-03-2003 04:13									#46
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quote: Ask a redneck how he thinks.

Shore will, fella...

All our necks get red from all our hard work outside on the farms unlike you sissy city slickers.

It's a badge of pride.

	29-03-2003 04:13									#47
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Ah, code words. They are used in every election, aren't they (but not always based on race), and by both sides. One Democrat one I liked was when they linked Republicans to 'Gingrich' a few years back.

	29-03-2003 04:15									#48
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quote: BULLSHIT! What did you think when Republicans talked about 'welfare mothers'? I bet it was just like other lefties who concluded he was talking about blacks.

What they think doesn't matter to me, only what they say. I am not in the mind reading business, and if people want to make judgements, its up to them, not me.

quote: Ask a redneck how he thinks.

I dont have the time to ask all of them: seeing how much money people like Jeff Foxworthy makes, it seems to me that "rednecks" are taking that words as their own, much like many black youths haven taken nigger as their own.

I would say there still is a difference betwee the notion of "redneck" and that of "nigger"; Redneck refers to a type of lifestyle, while nigger refers to a type of person, who is unble to change that. Not all poor white people are rednecks, and not all rednecks are poor white people. "White Trash" is a far worse term than "redneck" in my opinion, as is "cracker".

	29-03-2003 04:17									#49
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Well Imran, far be it from me to defend the Democrats (****ing weenies), but you'd be hard-pressed to put "Gingrich" on the same level as some of these other codewords.

After all, Gingrich was a prominent Republican... take the heavens that's "was," and not "is."

	29-03-2003 04:39									#50
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quote: seeing how much money people like Jeff Foxworthy makes, it seems to me that "rednecks" are taking that words as their own, much like many black youths haven taken nigger as their own.

So 'nigger' is ok then, right?

quote: Not all poor white people are rednecks, and not all rednecks are poor white people. "White Trash" is a far worse term than "redneck" in my opinion, as is "cracker".

Kidding right? Rednecks basically means 'White Trash'. They are interchangable terms. It's like 'Sachmo' and 'nigger'. One may refer to the poor variety of the other, but they are still basically interchangable.

--

quote: but you'd be hard-pressed to put "Gingrich" on the same level as some of these other codewords.

It is in the manner of usage. It wasn't meant to say the dude was like Newt. Instead there was a 'view' that was brought up when you said Gingrich (screw the poor and old and more for the rich... and no jokes about how those are real Republican values ) and by linking the Dems were using that view. It was still used as a codeword though.

	29-03-2003 04:52									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui So 'nigger' is ok then, right?

I don't think it is fine, but you said :"ask a redneck"

quote: Kidding right? Rednecks basically means 'White Trash'. They are interchangable terms. It's like 'Sachmo' and 'nigger'. One may refer to the poor variety of the other, but they are still basically interchangable.

NO, i m not, because I don't see them as the same. now, maybe you are fond of wide stereotypes and thinks evryone thinks like you, but were I am from, all poor whites are not rednecks, nor white trash. Not all White Trash is made up of rednecks, and vice versa. nd this is so since "redneck" refers to a specific lifestyle, which might very commonly overlap withew the lifestyle of "white trash" but does not need to be the same. For example: you can have suburban middle class white trash, but it is difficualt to have suburban redenecks.

	29-03-2003 05:47									#52
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no, i have to disagree with the stupidity of Americans, in my school everybody knows everything about iraq and other poltics(cant spell though) though we do have poltical descussions in class and we have the higest test scores in the county.

	29-03-2003 06:38									#53
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Also of note: Sure a lot of not-American people spouting what should be.

quote: Originally posted by Vesayen If your not from the U.S. then plug in your countries name instead......anyway this issue is important for every democratic western nation.

Maybe there should be reading comprehension tests for posting at 'Poly.

	29-03-2003 06:51									#54
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All people should not have the right to vote. Foreigners do not have the right to vote until they take a citizenship test. Natural born citizens should take the same test before being allowed to vote. Of course the Democratic party will oppose this because they survive on disinformation grilled into the minds of people who think the government should be their mommy.

	29-03-2003 07:07									#55
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I say no, as an extra 30 minutes tacked on would lower the voter turn out to only the intelligent people anyway.

Besides, Ukrainians would all pass the test.

	29-03-2003 07:16									#56
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quote: The 'NASCAR crowd' terminology is shorthand for 'redneck white Republican', just like 'Welfare mothers' is shorthand for 'black unemployed single mother'.

the NASCAR crowd crosses political lines, uniting rednecks of both parties, I live like 30 minutes from the Bristol Motor Speedway, home of the food city 500, so I know all about the NASCAR crowd, like right before a race every store and hotel in like a 100 mile radius puts up the "welcome race fans" signs

having came from a poverty stricken area of the Appalachia mountain chain in Virgina, when I hear welfare mothers, I think of poor uneducated white women, often times with an addiction to oxy cotin

as far as political tests go, i don't think they are needed, the one party-two faces system here in america does a good enough job of driving the voters away as it is, a test would only lower voter turnout by a few percentage points and it wouldn't be worth the effort

	29-03-2003 08:42									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki Maybe there should be reading comprehension tests for posting at 'Poly.

Snap.

	29-03-2003 12:59									#58
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Here's the deal, as I see it.

If you're considered intelligent enough to pay taxes, you're intelligent enough for vote. So if you fail the test, you lose the right to vote and you pay no tax until you pass it.

	29-03-2003 19:27									#59
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it wasn't that long ago
the white male was the only one allowed to vote.
he thought he was the smartest and everyone else
inferior to his judgement about politics..

seems not much has changed in their attitude

now at least everyone has the right to vote
regardless of age , color, or sex.
well of course im excluding children. since you have to be 18....but i think the age could be lowered... teens always have an opinion on politics



tests for intelligence on civics
just another way to go backward
because someone can't read doesn't make them
stupid or just because some folks have panic attacks
when confronted with tests doesn't make them stupid
how about the blind and the handicaped.
or maybe some folks with alkeimers...
oh lets just put everyone whos not as "smart" as others
to death so they don't get in our way.

my grandmother only has a 6th grade education.
certainly not someone i think of as stupid
but probably would not pass your civic test.
a 6th grade education was
not uncommon back in her day and time
and during the depression.
but she has political opinions and takes pride in voting
shes a die hard democrat even though most of the
family is republican. reads the paper and watches the news. we all respect her right to vote and have an opinion.

Last edited by boann on 29-03-2003 at 19:39

	30-03-2003 07:57									#60
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in an ideal world, only the intelligent people would vote, and everybody would be intelligent.

we don't live in that world, we live in a world were everyone is a complete and utter idiot.

in america, it's a right to vote; thus, everybody should be enfranchised.

however, and this is the tragic part, most americans seem to forget that with rights come responsibilities. they have a right to vote, and attached to it comes the responsibility to actually think, to actually research, to actually do something other than swallow the bullshit they see on the telly.

by and large, because americans tend to be stupid, they don't do this.

i willl admit, i've been guilty of some of it in the past; in the last election in dekalb county, ga, it completely escaped my notice that we were electing a judge. what did i do? i did what every person SHOULD do, when they don't have enough factual information to judcate on: i abstained from voting, trusting that those who did know their material would make the proper decision.

not everybody does things this way. add to that the fact that the american party system is the worst thing to happen to american democracy, you get a nation which is so fvcked up that you want to cry because it could be so much better than it is.