29-03-2003 00:42									#1
	Do you think the U.S. should institute a civics exam to be able to vote? Inflate your Upload Space

If your not from the U.S. then plug in your countries name instead......anyway this issue is important for every democratic western nation.

The stupidity of the average American on social issues is mind boggling-the stupidity of the average high school student actually scares me.......

People who have no idea of the issues should NOT be voting as they just muck up the results with uninformed opinions.

This idea has been thrown around for two centuries but I always supported it.

It wouldnt be HARD exam by any means-it would take somewhere between 10-30 minutes and be filled out in advance of the voting at some standard site. The testee would be isolated for a few minutes and fill the exam. VERY basic kind of questions-what is the constitution, who was the first president, what is the state capital etc....A VERY easy exam but some basic knowledge everyone should know. No harder then the basic test given to people applying for citizenship.

When the ignorant vote they arent voicing "their" opinion, they are voicing the opinion of whatever politicion effected them with a commerical.....

Do you really want some uninformed dolt who has NO idea of the issues, and was influenced by some flashy political add to neutralize the value of your informed vote?


Problems for the disabled who cant make it to a voting center to be isolated to fill out a form are another issue but im sure we can work out a solution.

I think 20 minutes of every American(at least every voting American) would go a GREAT way towards fixing this countries problems.

Edit: Correction-I think this would be the single most important/easiest change our country could possible make.

Last edited by Vesayen on 29-03-2003 at 00:52

	29-03-2003 00:48									#2
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Every voter should know as much as incoming immigrants obtaining citizenship.

	29-03-2003 00:51									#3
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most people don't vote anyway

so I don't see it as an issue

Jon Miller

	29-03-2003 00:52									#4
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The minute you try and curtail the franchise is the minute I make lots of political allies.

	29-03-2003 00:52									#5
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it is true that our highschool education (and grade school) should be better

people who finish highschool should be able to pass the immegrant citizenship test

Jon Millre

	29-03-2003 00:54									#6
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John-im a graduating senior at a suburban highschool with overall great grades, a blue ribbon school, but in political science/social stuides the students knowledge is abominable.

Yes they can pass the tests but they have NO retained knowledge on it a month later-I would expect 90% of my school to fail such an exam.

	29-03-2003 00:55									#7
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John-most of my school would fail it........(graduating senior) they have NO retained knowledge about social issues/sciences.


Any idea where I could find one online though? Curious what I would get.

	29-03-2003 00:56									#8
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Yes, and the exams should all be racially biased.

	29-03-2003 00:58									#9
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even stupid people should have the right to vote.

	29-03-2003 00:58									#10
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Stupid babies need the most attention.

	29-03-2003 01:03									#11
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quote: Originally posted by boann even stupid people should have the right to vote.

I have to disagree.
To go with your viewpoint, we REALLY screw up with our tests for citizenship.

And to who said "Most don't vote", if you don't vote, keep your mouth clamped shut.
You have nothing worth hearing to say.

	29-03-2003 01:07									#12
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It's tempting to say yes, but it's eerily similar to Mississippi's "literacy" tests in the south.

I have no opinion on this issue. And nobody's gonna change my mind, dammit!

	29-03-2003 01:10									#13
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quote: VERY basic kind of questions-what is the constitution, who was the first president, what is the state capital etc....

Well not knowing what your state capital is, would be most ridiculous, you'd have to be living in the stone age for that..

Well I would be in favour of the exam if the questions were about the party you are going to vote on

a test on the programme of the party you are voting on, it shouldn't be too difficult, but you should know what the party stands for (in the US you only have about 2 big parties, the greens are pretty pathetic so..., but in Belgium there are lots of parties, and the thing is with a lot of voters here, quite a few vote on the rightwing extremist party but they don't know what the party's programme is.. they just vote on them because they are racists and they want foreigners out here )

That would do much good... If you fail the test your vote doesn't count..

	29-03-2003 01:13									#14
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"Well not knowing what your state capital is, would be most ridiculous, you'd have to be living in the stone age for that.."

DO NOT under-estimate the stupidity of Americans on politics/social issues as you will repetadly be amazed when you see new lows (I can say this because im American heh).

	29-03-2003 01:14									#15
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No exams.

If you're truly intrested in the issue I reccommed The Democratic Dilemma: Can Citizens Learn What They Need to Know? by Arthur Lupia and Matt McCubbins. In synopsis:

quote: The political consequences of limited information can be very serious. However, our theorems suggest that people do not suffer these consequences nearly as often as many scholars and pundits proclaim. Politics often forces poeple to learn what they need to know from the oral and written testimony of other people. In these cases, limited information procludes a principal (voter) from making a reasoned choice if the conditions for persuasion do not apply. Therefore, if a principal has access to the testimony of at least one speaker whom she perceives as knowledgable and trustworthy, then limited information need not preclude reasoned choice. However, and unlike prior explanations of persuasion, we conclude that trust need not be derived from a principal's assesment of a speaker's personal charachter. Instead, we argue that external forces that alter and clarify a speaker's incentives can serve as the basis for trust. When people can learn from others, reasoned choice requires neither encyclopedic information nor relevant personal experience. People have incentives to be, and in fact are, quite selective about whom they choose to believe.

	29-03-2003 01:31									#16
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quote: Well not knowing what your state capital is, would be most ridiculous, you'd have to be living in the stone age for that..

You have no idea of the depths of ignorance that the average, American high school student can reach. .

Even a lot of college students dont know who anyone is under Bush.

	29-03-2003 01:33									#17
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Bet they all knew who was under Clinton.

	29-03-2003 01:41									#18
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"Should there be a civics exam to vote?"

How whould the Dems ever win?

	29-03-2003 01:43									#19
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By running DLs, of course.

	29-03-2003 01:46									#20
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A test sounds like a good idea in theory, but in practice I see at least two huge problems (I'm sure there are many other issues too):

1) Voter turnout is already painfully low, and not just in the US. I don't think you need to give people another reason to not vote.

2) Having said test doesn't really adress the issue of voter ignorance. Presumably, everyone would know that they have to take the test, so they could just "cram" for it right before, which does nothing towards making an informed political decision.

There's also the possibility of comprehension problems based on language/education level, but I guess if you made the test easy enough, these could be largely avoided. Then again, if you make the test that easy, you're not really getting a better standard of voter, now are you.

	29-03-2003 01:48									#21
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Hell yeah... you can say good bye to the Democrats if we do!

	29-03-2003 03:25									#22
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quote: Originally posted by DarthVeda Hell yeah... you can say good bye to the Democrats if we do!

It's Republican voters that need an education, they are the ones who vote against their own interests. Especially true with white blue-collar workers in the South who have been trending Republican even though all their economic interests are better represented by the Democrats.

	29-03-2003 03:28									#23
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quote: The minute you try and curtail the franchise is the minute I make lots of political allies.

Indeed.

You don't want to see me on the same side as the communists.

I say no, because to raise the standards will favour whites over blacks, distorting the franchise.

I agree that the US school system should do a better job with civics, but the voting booth is not the place to teach people.

	29-03-2003 03:28									#24
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Absolutely not. People have a RIGHT to vote; it's not dependant on IQ or social status or keeping up on current events. It is a basic right.

Christ, you people scare me.

	29-03-2003 03:31									#25
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No one is suggesting a poll tax, Guynemer.


Also of note:
Sure a lot of not-American people spouting what should be.

	29-03-2003 03:34									#26
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I don't think the NASCAR crowd is well versed in civics: good bye Republicans!

Anyway: I say no. As much as the utter lack of civics and hisotircal knowledge among our youth despairs me, we can't talke steps to limit voting rights. Even someone ignorant of the structures of power has the ability to make sound judgement if given good impartial sources of info. You want a better educated public, reform the way in which they recieve political messages.

It would make as much sense, eprhaps more, to demand intelliegence tests before voting, and yet this is just as bad as civis exams.

	29-03-2003 03:34									#27
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quote: It's Republican voters that need an education, they are the ones who vote against their own interests. Especially true with white blue-collar workers in the South who have been trending Republican even though all their economic interests are better represented by the Democrats.

You are making the assumption that the blue collar workers in the South would agree with a Democratic economic policy (which most of them don't). Perhaps they believe in a certain economic system (lower taxes and smaller goverment), even if it may not help them as much in the short term? Perhaps there are other interests they vote on?

Perhaps you are lacking in knowledge (or should I say, education), on the interests of those workers and how high they rate them?

--

Instead of a test, I say that we should have civics/current event classes EVERY year of school.

	29-03-2003 03:37									#28
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Agree with Imran.

GePap, you're a red-neck bigot.

	29-03-2003 03:38									#29
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Like I said, oblige everyone to vote, and make them fill in a simple test about the party they are going to vote on... the ppl who don't want to vote just leave the exam blanco and voila everybody is happy

	29-03-2003 03:38									#30
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand No one is suggesting a poll tax, Guynemer.

Doesn't matter, Sloww.

Citizens have the right to vote, period.