30-03-2003 08:13									#61
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Yes, we should have voting tests. We should also have poll taxes and grandfather clauses.

	30-03-2003 08:19									#62
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Well, for all intents and purposes we have poll taxes. They are commonly refered to as income and local taxes, though.

	30-03-2003 08:19									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Yes, we should have voting tests. We should also have poll taxes and grandfather clauses.

I'd just be happy if they could fill in the correct hole on a voting sheet.

	30-03-2003 08:31									#64
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quote: Well, for all intents and purposes we have poll taxes. They are commonly refered to as taxes, though.

Last time I checked, not voting doesn't exempt one's tax payments, nor does paying the tax automatically confer the ability to vote.

quote: I'd just be happy if they could fill in the correct hole on a voting sheet.

But they have computers now.

	30-03-2003 08:43									#65
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I think that such a test would be a good idea (but I think that they have been declared unconstitutional)

I also think that Americans should have to do a one year stint in the military or in a CCC-type organization before earning the vote.

	30-03-2003 10:08									#66
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quote: Last time I checked, not voting doesn't exempt one's tax payments, nor does paying the tax automatically confer the ability to vote.

I believe that everyone that votes pays taxes of some kind.

	30-03-2003 10:10									#67
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Why is the test side gaining?

Obviously we have a bunch of champions of universal sufferage here on poly....

	30-03-2003 10:11									#68
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GePap, why is universal suffrage a good thing?

	30-03-2003 10:23									#69
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quote: I believe that everyone that votes pays taxes of some kind.

Sure, but that doesn't make sales taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, etc. poll taxes.

If you're an ex-convict in many states and you pay these taxes, you still don't have the ability to vote. Likewise, if you're a minor, you still don't have the ability to vote. On the other hand, if you refuse to vote, you still have to pay these taxes.

So, these forms of taxes are certainly not poll taxes.

quote: GePap, why is universal suffrage a good thing?

Universal suffrage is the best way of insuring that everyones' interests will be represented in the state.

	30-03-2003 10:26									#70
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Because without it you introduce social distinctions that can lead to internal porblems and devides. I don;t think a large modern society can be very stable if the majority of individuals are either not citizens, or citizens without the right to participate. remeber why the voting age got moved down to 18: cause there were people asking why a 18 year old could die for his country but not participate in the political decisions that would mena war or peace. I say, if you want to deny people the vote based on their knowledge, then you must also exclude them form the reponsibilities of citizenship, such as serving in the military or jury duty. Without the fundamental rights of a citizen, how can you be asked to bear the reponsibilities of one?

	30-03-2003 10:49									#71
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I think that voting is something that is too important to put into the hands of any idiot. Voting is something that requires some modicum of Civic Responsibility to work effectively; it needs to be exercised by people who either have political awareness or something iin stake in their country other than the idea of just cashing their paycheck. I personally hate the idea of programs such as "Rock the Vote". All this is is MTV mobilizing a largely ignorant group of the electorate and voting for who Brittney Spears tells them to vote for. I think that people should have to earn the right to vote somehow. Voting should be something that is cherised and exercised with discretion, not because MTV told me to vote for some candidate.

	30-03-2003 11:48									#72
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Well, if so, why should any idiot be allowed to run for office, or be given a gun for that matter? Or why should we let 16 year olds drive?

The fact is that the people you complain about don't vote period. Given that general turnout is 60% on a good election now a days, putting barriers aropund voting is the last thing we want. we already have too few people participating in elections.

As I said before, if people are given good, accurate, non-biased and spinned info they can come up with an intelligent choice. But even then, all we aks for in democracy is a choice, not a smart one.

	30-03-2003 12:00									#73
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quote: Sure, but that doesn't make sales taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, etc. poll taxes.

They indoubtably involve a poll tax. Poll taxes mean you have to pay to vote. There is no one out there that votes but doesn't pay any taxes.

Direct poll taxes, simply try to eliminate the middle man, and have the people who are voting pay taxes then and there.

This is why more people should go out an vote. Their money is being used for the upkeep of the polls, so by not voting they are wasting their money.

	30-03-2003 12:53									#74
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I say no. Everyone pays for the government, they should also have a say in how their money is spent. Regardless of how insignificant their input is.

The "voter turnout" issue is null for Australia though. Everyone votes, or is fined $50.

	30-03-2003 13:01									#75
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I say yes.

Anyone who knows anything about history knows what happens when you give the entire populace the vote... just look at what happened to France.

	30-03-2003 14:21									#76
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quote: They indoubtably involve a poll tax. Poll taxes mean you have to pay to vote. There is no one out there that votes but doesn't pay any taxes. Direct poll taxes, simply try to eliminate the middle man, and have the people who are voting pay taxes then and there. This is why more people should go out an vote. Their money is being used for the upkeep of the polls, so by not voting they are wasting their money.

Once again, paying taxes doesn't guarantee the right to vote (ex-cons and minors) and you have to pay taxes regardless of whether or not you want to vote. This is fundamentally different from what poll taxes generally mean.

	30-03-2003 20:52									#77
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I stand by my earlier statement:

Some of you people scare the living **** out of me.

	30-03-2003 22:08									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln All people should not have the right to vote. Foreigners do not have the right to vote until they take a citizenship test. Natural born citizens should take the same test before being allowed to vote. Of course the Democratic party will oppose this because they survive on disinformation grilled into the minds of people who think the government should be their mommy.

as opposed to the republican party that lies through its teeth saying that it can make rich people out of the poor if there was only government to solely benefit the rich and corporations

	30-03-2003 23:45									#79
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Gepap, at least when talking about me and my friends, 'redneck', or (jenkki)-punaniska is not a politically correct word, merely a racist term which means a Texan christian who's overweight, male, lives in rural area and has a huge arsenal of weapons. And is stupid.

	31-03-2003 00:39									#80
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Civics exams in order to vote? Hell no.

However, I do think that people should be given civics lessons at school. Decent ones, not the half-arsed stopgap measure that me and my mates were subjected to at school.

	31-03-2003 01:19									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Tuomerehu Gepap, at least when talking about me and my friends, 'redneck', or (jenkki)-punaniska is not a politically correct word, merely a racist term which means a Texan christian who's overweight, male, lives in rural area and has a huge arsenal of weapons. And is stupid.

good grief... have you ever even been to Texas
I've spent a great deal of time there
and I've never seen a "Texan christian who's overweight, male, lives in rural area and has a huge arsenal of weapons. And is stupid"
thats just assinine bullshit sterotypical nonsense

	31-03-2003 01:21									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer I stand by my earlier statement: Some of you people scare the living **** out of me.

this is one of the first things I've read that I can
fully agree with

	31-03-2003 01:33									#83
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The less educated vote based more upon emotion and spur-of-the-moment swaying of opinion, and often times vote without being informed. Does anyone recall what happened in 1793 or 1852?

	31-03-2003 01:50									#84
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I think candidates should have a civics exam to be able to receive votes. And IQ tests for voters... weighted votes according to some IQ scale. (Not everyone wants to study civics.)

	31-03-2003 02:54									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Skyjack666 "Should there be a civics exam to vote?" How whould the Dems ever win?

That's a funny joke, but the truth is the Republican Party would be clobbered by this. Statistics show that the more educated a person is, the more likely they are to vote Democrat.

	31-03-2003 02:57									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: It's Republican voters that need an education, they are the ones who vote against their own interests. Especially true with white blue-collar workers in the South who have been trending Republican even though all their economic interests are better represented by the Democrats. You are making the assumption that the blue collar workers in the South would agree with a Democratic economic policy (which most of them don't). Perhaps they believe in a certain economic system (lower taxes and smaller goverment), even if it may not help them as much in the short term?

Hence his point that they're voting against their interests.

	31-03-2003 03:00									#87
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I would have thought that Florida would have proved that already.

All Florida proved was that broken and un-cleaned machines coupled with Republican malfeasance and Democratic weasalness can undermine our democratic rights.

	31-03-2003 03:03									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Remember, 'cracker' is a similar insult as 'nigger'.

The hell it is.

	31-03-2003 03:03									#89
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quote: good grief... have you ever even been to Texas I've spent a great deal of time there and I've never seen a "Texan christian who's overweight, male, lives in rural area and has a huge arsenal of weapons. And is stupid" thats just assinine bullshit sterotypical nonsense

Missed my point?
That's _exactly_ why it isn't a politically correct word, and why only idiots or wannabe-rebels tend to use it.

I'm sorry if you misunderstood me...

quote: And IQ tests for voters... weighted votes according to some IQ scale.

No.

	31-03-2003 03:09									#90
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist GePap, why is universal suffrage a good thing?

It lowers war unhappiness in republics and democracies, duh!