29-03-2003 19:15									#1
	Thread for the old timers: Does Iraq remind you of Vietnam yet? Increase Your PM Length

I'm not suggesting the war is going the way of Vietnam - its only a week old and Vietnam went on for a decade

But watching the coverage of Iraq is starting to dredge up vague memories of the Vietnam war, which occurred in the background of my childhood. Things like the "victory is just around the corner" line from the military. Every night it was the same story at the infamous "Five O'clock follies" the US military held in Saigon.

Also the casualty figures. Vietnam was also a very one sided war in terms of casualties, like 500 communists killed to say 10 Americans in every battle report, endless reports like that. In the end Vietnam lost about a million troops to America's 50,000.

This looks like another war without a frontline. Vietnam was like that. You'd hear reports of an area being taken, "pacified" was the word used for this in Vietnam, and then suddenly fighting would break out there again. In this war we're getting the same phenomenon. It is impossible to tell what areas are under control.

Anyone else getting that chill Vietnam ghost on their shoulder?

	29-03-2003 19:35									#2
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Vietnam limited action in massive ways. Couldn't bomb Saigon, or push too far north for fear of a nuclear conflict with China.

There were also no front lines in Vietnam, and easy ways for VC to move about. Iraq is significantly different terrain, and allows us to see troop movements pretty darn easy. Unmanned Predator drones allow us to fly in, and shoot in cities without risking troops too.

Casualty rates in Vietnam were very high; they just aren't happening for the Coalition that way in Iraq.

We are using more a siege mentality and bringing to bear tech to get much of this battle done, rather than bloody engagements. Its a little more time consuming than some would like but it does minimize the casualities on our side and put increasing pressure on them, which is showing in suicidal mistakes like the Basrah rout.

	29-03-2003 19:40									#3
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

For anyone of a certain age, it's impossible not to think of Vietnam, but I think that's premature. A few years from now, when the US is trying to prop up whatever 'pro-American' government it's installed, the parallels might be closer.

	29-03-2003 20:12									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Let's see . . . US government lying, US government clueless, US government cracking down on civil liberties, US government opposed by the people they are supposedly liberating, US government saying it will be a short war . . .

Just like the good old days.

	29-03-2003 20:34									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by spiritof1202 There were also no front lines in Vietnam, and easy ways for VC to move about. Iraq is significantly different terrain, and allows us to see troop movements pretty darn easy. Unmanned Predator drones allow us to fly in, and shoot in cities without risking troops too.

The Iraqis have been using the sandstorms to cover their movement.

	29-03-2003 20:52									#6
	Remove this text

Like I said some time ago, somebody somewhere will tell Captain Picard not to engage the Ferengi, because "it'll become another Vietnam"

	29-03-2003 21:10									#7
	Support Apolyton

The scary thing about the Vietnam war was that Brad Pitt was a sniper in it, and as the movie progressed well into the 90s he didn't age at all

	29-03-2003 21:18									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

The protests certainly bring back some memories. That's about it though; it's a totally different situation otherwise.

	29-03-2003 21:19									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Like I said some time ago, somebody somewhere will tell Captain Picard not to engage the Ferengi, because "it'll become another Vietnam"

I wish I kept that in my sig.

	29-03-2003 21:20									#10
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Sorry, Zylka, but that pales before the prospect of another movie with Brando looking about the size of Koko the gorilla but without the expressive range.

The horror, the horror...

	29-03-2003 21:26									#11
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

If this is Vietnam, it's Vietnam on steroids. It took years of fighting before the level of protest against the war in Vietnam reached the level it did for this war before the first shot was fired.

	29-03-2003 21:35									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Like I said some time ago, somebody somewhere will tell Captain Picard not to engage the Ferengi, because "it'll become another Vietnam"

I can't remember the Federation propping up a corrupt regime or launching a "preventive war."

	29-03-2003 21:38									#13
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I can't remember the Federation propping up a corrupt regime or launching a "preventive war."

He's merely commenting on the tendency among some Poly posters to label any conflict the US wages as Vietnam Redux.

	29-03-2003 21:41									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc He's merely commenting on the tendency among some Poly posters to label any conflict the US wages as Vietnam Redux.

The thing is though, comparing the Federation with the US is a poor analogy.

At any rate, most see this Gulf War II as unjust, just like Vietnam.

	29-03-2003 21:42									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

True. The Federation will be enlightened and socialist.

	29-03-2003 21:44									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara True. The Federation will be enlightened and socialist.

It will also have its own secret police to keep the uppity species outside of the Federation in line.

	29-03-2003 21:46									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc It will also have its own secret police to keep the uppity species outside of the Federation in line.

Who? The red shirts?

	29-03-2003 21:47									#18
	Suffering from ads?

One similarity is that both countries are too proud to accept the Americans as liberators. They rather shoot back than become invaded. I think the guerilla attacks will make it impossible/very painful for the coalition to occupy Iraq.

	29-03-2003 21:48									#19
	I was talking about Section 31. Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Who? The red shirts?

I'm revoking your geek credentials.

	29-03-2003 21:49									#20
	Re: I was talking about Section 31. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I'm revoking your geek credentials.

Keep your hands off, you have nevered played Star Fleet Battles.

	29-03-2003 21:50									#21
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Section 13, wasn't it?

	29-03-2003 21:51									#22
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre One similarity is that both countries are too proud to accept the Americans as liberators.

This, however, is true of most countries. I would wait in judgement of the Iraqis, though, as it was claimed by an Iraqi in Umm Qassar that Hussein's agents were still in the city, which is why they had a pro-Hussein rally just before the food started getting passed out. If true, the Iraqis may be afraid that the Americans will abandon them yet again (we've done it twice now--1976 and 1991) and don't want to risk angering Hussein until he's gone for sure.

	29-03-2003 21:52									#23
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Section 13, wasn't it?

There is no Section 13.

	29-03-2003 21:53									#24
	Re: I was talking about Section 31. Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I'm revoking your geek credentials.

*chegitz points and gives a Nelson laugh. "HA ha!"

	29-03-2003 21:54									#25
	Inflate your Upload Space

@Trekkie threadjack.

	29-03-2003 21:56									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Keep your hands off, you have nevered played Star Fleet Battles.

True. I don't know anyplace that sells the game. However, I'm doing something almost as geeky by playing Heroclix.

	29-03-2003 21:58									#27
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara There is no Section 13.

You're right, it's Section 31. *insert ominous thunder here*

	29-03-2003 22:01									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc True. I don't know anyplace that sells the game. However, I'm doing something almost as geeky by playing Heroclix.

Heroclix?

Bah!

If I wanted to play on a grid, I'd play chess!

It's MageKnight or MechWarrior for ME.

...unfortunately, my brother is on a Heroclix kick for the time being, so I'm...kinda stuck...

	29-03-2003 22:03									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk It's MageKnight or MechWarrior for ME.

You surely meant Battletech.

And now the threadjacking is complete

	29-03-2003 22:03									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk ...unfortunately, my brother is on a Heroclix kick for the time being, so I'm...kinda stuck...

Why? You can play him using either MageKnight or MechWarrior. I've played against both using my figures.