29-04-2003 07:13									#31
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Yeah the loss of any ships early will cripple you. You must use the frigates to allow the others to escape in close battles and you will have a few tight ones.

	03-05-2003 01:12									#32
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Hope to try your game again this weekend. Have been struggling with a tech challenge and failing, so about time for something else. Anybody else still playing Moo2?

	03-05-2003 02:11									#33
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Yeah I’m still Mooing when I’m not Civing.

	03-05-2003 02:45									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Kaptain Ken Hope to try your game again this weekend. Have been struggling with a tech challenge and failing, so about time for something else. Anybody else still playing Moo2?

What tech challenge? Trying to learn all in under x number of turns?

	03-05-2003 02:46									#35
	Full PM-box? Change here!

BTW I got sucked into Nightmae mode with my Druid. I expect to stop after Act I and that should be today.

	03-05-2003 19:34									#36
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vmxa1,

Yes, trying to get under 200 turns with no more than 10 systems, impossible hugh average etc. Wars get in my way.

Old n Slow,

When I go back to CivII, I will play nothing else for awhile and then go to SMAC(X) and then back to Moo.
Glad your still playing

	03-05-2003 22:49									#37
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When you say 10 systems, do you mean as many planets as there are in those 10 systems? Do you mean 10 planets period?
What race and settigns are you going with?

	04-05-2003 19:49									#38
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I meant 10 planets in 4 or 5 systems. I made 210 turns with demo lith LHW & RHW on Impossible, Hugh, avarage tech and average age. Just have to avoid war and do a little better at growing faster. Its about time for something new, don't know what yet. Good luck if you are still working with your Druid.

	06-05-2003 00:16									#39
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I’m trying something a little different, but maybe the same effect -- few systems, lie low see how far up the tech tree one can go. In my game yesterday, I took the baby step -- small map, only average difficulty, kept to my one system except for a little searching around. I wanted to get to doom stars with reasonable equipment before I went around with the one system challenge. Had a few titans with AF Gauss cannons when the Klacks (who wiped out two races on their own) up & surrendered to me. I never fired a shot all game -- oh well. Used +2 pro, Dict, Sub, Creative (still hate making some of those choices), LHW; low G, -Ground, -Ship Def. I’ve already started the next game -- swapped a +1 Pro for Omi, & am playing at Hard level on a huge map -- don’t know if I’ll keep to one system or “accept” one or two more (maybe a close by monster guarded one, Orion) -- at least this game I’m in a corner.

I’m just about set with the minus side for a while & I like the LHW more than the RHW, so finding the extra odd point is no big deal. I’m also wondering about the relative merits of Dict, +1 pro as opposed to Uni, - some Food. Haven’t played enough to discover the subtle nuances & it may also depend on the rest of the package. Right now my fav seems to be Uni, Sub, Creative, LHW, & the minuses listed above.

	06-05-2003 00:40									#40
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Using only one system is difficult as your early tech lead will eventually be overcome, so you have to kill people quickly. I have played your way on hard, the trick seems to be how long to wait for the good techs and when to kill people.

I finally got all techs in under 200 turns, it took a lot of tries and a good location to avoid war and a lot of android scientists and leaves you very weak at that the end.

	06-05-2003 02:45									#41
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Old n Slow I would be very concerned in a huge map that you could get swamped. It can be done and a few games are posted with that sort of a style. I downloaded one and played it out. It gets hairy as they will have large fleets and be close to you in tech. Once you get to the point that you are wanting to move you have to make a very good ship design and attack their fleets.

	06-05-2003 02:53									#42
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Ok, I found it (I think), in the Custom race thread before this one at page 13. Bakalov posted the game.
You may want to read some of the talka bout that tpe of game. I hope that is the one.

	06-05-2003 12:06									#43
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Am I surrounded by noobs? I hope not...

	06-05-2003 19:31									#44
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Played a little more last night -- & gave in to temptation. A nice planet & asteroids were guarded by a monster two systems away…After turn 200+, the Gnols finally waded in & took it out. (Rats -- I was thinking of going there). So here I am in the corner. One system three planets & a set of asteroids soon to be the final planet in the system. The Gnols, upon founding a settlement, opened the diplomatic window (my second contact) & said hi. On my turn, I contacted them & demanded the system…which they gave me.

Many turns later, I sent a small fleet (7 units) over to Orion & one Doomstar took out the guardian using only a half dozen AF Gauss Cannons (augmented by a lot of nice tech stuff) -- my first battle. So I decided to settle Orion as well, have almost all the techs, have yet to conduct a second battle. Think I'll sit back & wait for company to arrive.

	19-05-2003 17:44									#45
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Old n Slow, did you pick up the game as jewl case only? If you did, check the directory -- the 1.31 patch was on the CD I picked up, in a separate directory.

	21-05-2003 02:48									#46
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No I had a box -- bought at a low price a few years back but I didn’t open it until this year. My SMAC is now two years old & yet to be installed. Picked up Civ III about two months ago -- figure that it will sit on the shelf until it ripens.

For the last week I’ve been toying with Heroes of Might & Magic (I). Part of a six pack with II & III & some add ons. I also have a half dozen Ultimas & Wizardys yet to try.

By the time I open up some of these I think I’ll discover that Windows 2015 won’t work with them.

But I’m still with version 1.2 of MOO2; once I get comfortable with weaning myself off creative, then I’ll sniff around for version 1.31. But for now, there are still some of those choices that I don’t want to make, especially if I’m not rushing out to conquer early on.

	21-05-2003 10:08									#47
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If you hate to constantly upgrade ships, then you will enjoy the feature in 1.31 that allows you to simply upgrade to a set design. That was a huge timesaver for me. Also I like what they did with initiative, it makes the battles more interesting.

	29-05-2003 19:35									#48
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quote: Ok I had a unusual map in Moo1. Silicoids not in the game, but only 7 normal ecology planets, plus Orion. Only 1 near me and one near Mrrs. One more 5 parsecs away form me. No planet that could not be colonized. Never seen that before.

Was the map "huge"?

	29-05-2003 21:29									#49
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I can't remember, but probably not. I tend to not play a lot of huge maps.

	29-05-2003 22:43									#50
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"Large", then? 7 normal planets doesn't sound a lot for medium ones (unless you mean non-toxic?)

	30-05-2003 08:09									#51
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What I remember for sure was that I had one Normal planet by me and One by one of the other races. There was a third one not in range, plus Orion. All other planets were hostile or uninhabitable to anyone.
I suspect the game was on med map, but I have jumped around so much I can not say for sure.

	27-05-2004 05:33									#52
	vxma garth vader help Put an end to popups!

Vxma and Garth,

You guys have been very helpful in the past helping me with the MOO2.

I've had a hankering to play again and it seems I've forgotten some of your key advice.

I'm looking for a tech or industry custom race for an Impossible max players game. Please do not assume anything. I've seen races listed where the points don't add up because something was assumed (I suspect Uncreative).

I usually pick Psilons so I don't have to fight them.

Also, early game combat tactics. I think one or both of you suggested corvette or smaller missle ships to start.

Some specifics:

What's the load out of your first conquest ships?

When do you attack Orion and with what?

How do you feel about beams before Phasor?

Assume v1.31

Thanks in advance for the refresher course.

	27-05-2004 11:00									#53
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Creative Artifacts Aquatic +1 Research Large HW
Low Gravity -20 ship def or att (whatever you prefer) -10 Spying.

This can usually win in 190 turns Prewarp, Huge, Impossible, 8 opponents. No colonization outside the home system. You may go even with no colonization at all.

First ship ~ at turn 110 (should be built with academy):
Hv AF Mass drivers (cant remember how much - 5 may be?)
Pd AF Mass Drivers - 10?

Battle Pods
Battle Scanner
Inertial Stabilizer
Heavy armor

3 such ships are enough for the whole game; may be enchanced with better armor, and better force field techs. If you run into planetary shields you'll have to add some bombs.

After you produce the first ship with good logistics you may get them all for ~80 turns ...

My research path: Research Labs, Auto Factories, Cloning Centers, Supercomputers, Robo Miners, the techs needed for the ship.

	27-05-2004 20:23									#54
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Cybernetic/tolerant/+2 production
Feudal/lithovore/creative
Lithovore/tolerant
Telepathic/charasmatic/+20 spying/warlord

	27-05-2004 20:25									#55
	Increase Your PM Length

Favorite negatives are -pop -money -ship defense feudal.

	27-05-2004 21:45									#56
	Re: vxma garth vader help Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

You can choose any number of races. If you want to prevent the Psilons from being in the game, just use their picture for your race.

Combat is up to ones taste, I prefer to go with beams most of the time in a huge map. I will use a cruiser with nukes arranged as single slots for the first 4, no computer if I am a tele or have a race on top of me.

Otherwise I will wait until I can build battleships with beams. By and large, I prefer to go with mass drivers to start my first attack and then switch to phasors.

I will put heavy armor if creative, if not reenforced hulls. My best armor and shields and computer. Battle Pods, Battle computer, stablizer and pack in guns. No bombs, no missiles, no missle def.

Once I get to Phasors and I have 6 battleships, I go for Orion, if in range. Once I get it, I refit ships to take advantage of any new tech from Orion.

I should mention, I tend to time the attack for right after I have researched most of the 3500 RP techs. This is to get the increase room for ships and the Deep Core to make ships faster.

How about Uni Aqua Sub +1 production, you can use what ever minuses you like.
-GC -ship def repulsive
Many like -low g -spy -gc, I dislike taking low g if you want to spread out and are not creative.

	28-05-2004 00:09									#57
	Re: Re: vxma garth vader help Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 You can choose any number of races. If you want to prevent the Psilons from being in the game, just use their picture for your race. How about Uni Aqua Sub +1 production, you can use what ever minuses you like. -GC -ship def repulsive Many like -low g -spy -gc, I dislike taking low g if you want to spread out and are not creative.

I meant to say that I do exactly what you said about choosing the Psilon picture.

Can I assume you are hunkered down in one system this whole time then? Otherwise how would you avoid the agression of the other races long enough to obtain the 3500 stuff? If you are not creative, please fill me in on some of your bigger tech decisions. For example. Planetary Supercomputer, Positronic (if I recall correctly).

How many spies do you need to defend against having all your techs looted?

Thanks to everyone else that posted.

	28-05-2004 00:12									#58
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When I've played creative, I have definitely favored auto-fire mass drivers on early ships. Great for knocking down missles too.

But I haven't had a lot of luck against space monsters with beam ships in the early game. If there is a juicy planet one system away, I really want to take it.

I had a lot of luck last game with nuclear missle ships. Sacrificed a couple but still got the system. Lost the game overall though.

	28-05-2004 00:41									#59
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mirv nukes hit and run are the way to go if you want to kill monsters and not take loses. With beams you need the positronic computer and the battle scanner to hit them, and you need shields/tritanium to stand up to their weapons for more then 1 round.

The ships I build are based on how fast I can finish them, ~10 turns and ok. That means for a non super production race cruisers. Of course once I have several cruisers I'll be willing to plunk down 20 turns to get a BB out.

I go missiles until I can get mass drivers. They are better against the AI then fusion beams because of AP and the lack of heavy armor on AI ships. Then it depends on where I go from there, some times I get gauss cannons, some times phasors, some times plasma cannons. all of them have their ups and downs. I've never played a non creative game with only fighters, I'll have to try it. Gauss cannons have AP and are on the way to class 7 shields(which give AP/AF on the cannons), phasors have SP and are good pd weapons, and plasma cannons hit really really hard.

	28-05-2004 00:41									#60
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Bleh I'll have to get off my butt and play the next term.