31-03-2003 07:33									#1
	Help me stick to my guns! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

HELLOOOOO, APOLYTON!!

I need some help from you fellas...

For the past five months or so, I've been having an on-and-off relationship with a girl at my college. At some point, she fell in love with me, and I fell in love with her. We never did start officially going out as boyfriend and girlfriend, and eventually in January when Winter break ended, she told me she wanted to call it quits.

I'll be honest, I took it very badly, but I was starting to get used to the idea of us being just friends by the third week or so. And then one day, she came over to my room and we were hanging out, and she started getting really horny and she climbed on top of me. Well, I told her that she better think about what she was doing before she'd regret it. And she stopped and we ended up talking for a while, but eventhough I declined to do "it", our relationship had CLEARLY gone again beyond just being friends.

The next day, my resolve caved and we ended up sleeping together under two conditions. 1) It was just noncommittal sex, and 2) That even though it was noncommittal that we were still two people who cared about each other making love and not just satisfying our urges in some sleazy way.

Well, this went on for about two weeks of casual sex. At one point, she started getting weird on me again and became withdrawn. I had to literally pretend to get really upset with her for her to tell me the truth that she felt like SHE was getting too attached to ME and that it was a bad thing. I told her that I wasnt, and that in fact, I had become interested in a girl from upstairs. Her response was "I can't believe I mean so little to you." Now, this was just absurd since she had always been the one trying to avoid commitment. I reminded her that SHE wanted it this way and not me, and when the time came that she wanted to settle down, I'd be more than willing to commit. She said ok.

Well, another week passed and AGAIN I noticed she was becoming withdrawn. She wouldn't kiss me or anything. I bought her a birthday present, and I said I love you to her when I gave it to her, and she said it back, but something still wasn't right. I wrote a note to her explaining how I wasn't her little toy to be played with and that I felt like she was manipulating me. She read it and completely agreed. We got into an argument, and I reminded her of what she said to me when she found out I was interested in another girl. She said "Oh, when I said that, I was actually happy for you." At that point, I kicked her out of my room and told her that I was tired of her lies and that she was talking to me like a politician.

Well, a day or two went by, and I sat her down and explained that I couldn't possibly be friends with somebody who was being so dishonest with me and who never let me in on what was happening. She told me then she felt like a whore a lot of times. That she didn't know why she had casual sex, but that she just sort of did in spite of the fact that she didn't really want to. I dug a little deeper, and she admitted (as I had said all along) that her fear to commit had to do with her ex-boyfriend Skippy who dumped her after two years of a relationship. I felt better after this, like I was finally getting the real story, so I foolishly continued the friendship...

Spring Break came, and we talked for hours on the phone during that time. When we came back, I expressed a difficulty with just being her friend. Frankly, I didn't want it. I wanted more. I told her this but that I would try it the way it was. Well, the following Saturday, what do you think happened? YES! We had sex once again! This time I expected it because I could clearly see she was going to go back on her desire to just be friends as she always had before. I also knew, however, that she was also going to want to stop again as well.

Sure enough, on Thursday afternoon not two hours after what she called a "particularly special orgasm" she said she didn't want to do it anymore. I told her it was alright because I'd pretty much been doing it just for the sex by that point. Well, later on, we had a talk online, which escalated into a fight when she said all she wanted to do was just meet other people. Now, I know, what "meeting other people" means for her. It means sex. For somebody who feels like she's a whore, she's got a weird way of solving the problem.

She came to see me and the fight continued. I'd said some pretty harsh stuff and she wanted me to apologize. I told her I was justified. She had accused me of "seducing" her this last time, and I told her that was a lot of crap. She stormed out of there, and I was more than happy to let her.

The next day, I was an absolute wreck. I didn't want to get out of bed. I missed my classes. When I did get out of bed, I'd just wander around looking like my puppy had been shot. I'd sit on the benches and just stare at the lake... I tried feeding some geese but they started killing themselves over the bread! I really thought I'd gone off the deep end for a while there, but I started snapping out of it by the end of the day.

Nevertheless, I'm still depressed about all of this. And I'm frankly kind of pissed. I sent her a letter by email tonight basically saying that she was nothing but an immature child, that I was paying the price for her indecisiveness, that I was tired of her lies, and I was through with her, our love life, and our friendship. I still feel I made the right decision, but I also feel like I want to talk to her again.

HELP ME! TELL ME NOT TO DO IT! CONVINCE ME TO STICK TO MY GUNS!

	31-03-2003 07:43									#2
	Put an end to popups!

Cut out the name calling and just be polite to her. That's it; cool distant and polite. Go out with other friends and try to meet new girls or wait for an opportunity to ask out the girl up stairs. As for this girl just realize she will never change and never get into a commited relationship with her. If you want to continue with a casual thing then, hey, you're both adults.

Just make sure you're not the type of guy who feels guilty about a casual relationship.

	31-03-2003 07:45									#3
	Remove this text

Don't do it. Don't be a pawn in her hands.
She doesn't know what she want, it is useless you become a victim of her petty games. She needs someone who is solid for two, and determined for two. From your post, I don't think you're strong enough yet.

It is useless you get broken in her wreckage as well. Find a normal girlfriend, it'll help you rejecting her everytime she'll come for sex.

	31-03-2003 07:47									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Well, I wouldn't ever feel guilty about a casual relationship, but I'm the kind of guy that would eventually start wanting more.

Partly the reason is that I'm no ladies man, so when I find a girl who's attracted to me, I'd just be greedy not to want to keep what I've got.

And no, the casual thing was how this all started. The casual thing was what we tried to do once she ran out on the idea of a relationship, and the casual thing is what we just tried again and failed to continue.... She's a fickle creature... on the one hand, she didn't want a relationship, on the other hand, she felt like a slut with casual sex, and on the third hand... ... she can't seem to be "just friends" very long before she's jumping back into my bed.

	31-03-2003 07:48									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

3,000,000,000 females in this world, surely you can find another.

	31-03-2003 07:49									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Those are all her hang ups not yours. You need to make a decision either be emotionally detached and continue the casual thing or just say no. That's it. Those are your choices.

	31-03-2003 07:57									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Oerdin - good point. It is her issues and not mine. Of course, even a guy who just wanted sex would get fed up with the constant flipping of decisions on her part...

And Spiffor - She really doesn't want to be with anybody it seems. Because most of the times when this issue came up, she'd be bawling and I'd be helping her through the thought process, and for whatever reason, she'd usually continue to be with me.

Even if I were a stronger person, I can't imagine what could possibly be done to bring her into a relationship. That's neither here nor there as it does not matter anymore... a relationship has not been on the table for many months now. True, a part of me did feel for a while that I should just let her work out her emotional problems and that she'd probably overcome her fears and come back to me eventually, but since her story changes just about every time she tells it, I think that'd be an exercise in futility.

	31-03-2003 08:00									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well, then there is no other solution to give her up. You have no way to help her. It is pointless to let her break you.
There are planty of girls who want a simple and pleasant relationship. Pick one, and forget this psycho.

	31-03-2003 08:06									#9
	Remove this text

Ah, sigh! I'm currently looking for somebody new... I feel kind of like an idiot for doing it because it seems like I'm just looking for more punishment.

Admittedly, my confidence is low. My track record with women is pretty awful.

Besides, even after all the sh*t she's put me through, I feel like there's something... unnatural about us not being together. And I'm certain that when she starts bringing guys home, I'm gonna be a wreck. I know I have to accept the way things are, but at the same time I kinda don't want to. I feel like my whole life I've just been accepting the way things are... like I've got control over nothing.

	31-03-2003 08:10									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

It feels unnatural because humans are creatures of habit. We just want to continue with things that are familiar to us even if we know they are bad for us. Find a new girl.

	31-03-2003 08:12									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

reason it feels unnatural is that you built attachemnts to her

that is the reason it is worthwhile being careful who you sleep with (especially for extended lengths of time)

Jon Miller

	31-03-2003 08:22									#12
	Put an end to popups!

Well, that makes very good sense.

I mean, I was willing to sleep with her for extended lengths of time because from the beginning, I was interested in dating her even if she was not. Obviously though, she too grew attached after a time... I don't know whether that means she was confusing love with something else... I suppose it really doesn't matter either.

But we certainly are creatures of habit. I suffer from moderate depression, and most of my life I've been pretty negative about a lot of things not least of which was myself. I had no love for myself.

The worst "break up" Dana and I had, which was when we were almost boyfriend and girlfriend was very hard for me. And she misunderstood something I had said thinking that I was going to kill myself. She was terrified. I've never seen anyone so scared in my life. But as a result of that, I decided I was going to go back to the therapist and I didn't just want to beat the disease, I wanted to learn to love myself and actually WANT to be alive. So that's what I've been doing.

Since all of this has started up and festered, I've been relapsing quite badly. That and the fact that my family is rocketing to the poor house has eaten away at my resolve to get better... I started lapsing back, and at one point I actually WANTED to go back to the "wish I were dead" mentality I'd always had before... if you've lived with it long enough, it becomes rule...

	31-03-2003 08:25									#13
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: 3,000,000,000 females in this world, surely you can find another.

Actually, wouldn't it be 2,999,999,999? Of course there happen to be people like lesbians and supermodels and people in wierd countries that might cut down that count to..... 14.

	31-03-2003 08:26									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

"Let's just be friends."

NEVER *EVER* WORKS.

Sure, the occasional person will chime in with, "yeah and we are best friends now -- she even tells me about all the guys she is screwing."

Other times the women will tell us all the guy friends they have but the truth of the matter is they are probably hot and those guys want to have sex with her even if they don't realize it.

Bottom line is that you just gotta sever ties, however you have to do it, do it. If you hear her on the machine then erase it. If she calls you on the phone then you gotta go somewhere. If you pass her on the way to class then you are in a rush.

Find an outlet. Go volunteer. Hit the weights. Do SOMETHING with all that energy.

	31-03-2003 08:31									#15
	Suffering from ads?

I wouldn't mind a super model but for some reason they seem to mind me.

Dom: It sounds like you have a lot of things going on in your life right now. Perhaphes it would be good for you to find a new hobby which will take your mind off of your problems for a little while. What have you been wanting to do for sometime but have never gotten around to? Maybe you'd like to take up photography, learn to surf, take a painting class, or submite a short story to a local newspaper? There are a million things which you can do to improve your life and the lives of those around you; that way you will be making the world better instead of just seeing everything which is wrong around you. Good luck man.

	31-03-2003 08:33									#16
	Got spare money?

Dom : You could also use your energy arguing on the OT. It becomes terribly addictive at some point

	31-03-2003 08:35									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Word.

And Dom, stop it with the emails. You're just going to make it worse. Either put her on a filter that deletes it before you ever know about it, or change email addresses.

You are doing the right thing with your therapist and with all the other madness going on around you the last thing you need is to worry about someone else and especially someone who has all sorts of confusing ties to you.

At the end of the day you have to take care of yourself.

	31-03-2003 08:40									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker "Let's just be friends." NEVER *EVER* WORKS. Sure, the occasional person will chime in with, "yeah and we are best friends now -- she even tells me about all the guys she is screwing."

I have to admite that I had a year long off and on relationship (like off and on four different times in that year) with my ex-girlfriend and each time after she dumped me I tried the "let's still be friends" line hoping to still get lucky once in a while. I think exes stay friends because one of them still hopes they'll get back togeather and if he just waits for the right moment then she'll take him back.

At least that was the case with me.

	31-03-2003 08:50									#19
	Tired of ads?

When I was 20 year old, I went through 3 girls in about 60 days. I just met my future wife but did not know it yet. She was no. 4 and we now have been married 38 plus years.
Back to the 3. As soon as one girl did something to brother me, I cut and ran to the next. Just do it is my motto.

	31-03-2003 08:52									#20
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You are the man Joe.

And Oerdin you are on the money.

	31-03-2003 08:54									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I don't know about Dom Pedro

but I at least don't have girls who I can move onto (I don't have a girl to leave either)

it is not like that for everyone

Jon Miller

	31-03-2003 08:55									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Striker - Ya know what makes all of this vastly more difficult is that A) she lives right down the hall from me, and B) is that we have all the same friends. We're part of one tightly-knit group, and its somewhat straining.

	31-03-2003 08:55									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

A bad relationship is way worse than not being in one.

	31-03-2003 08:57									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Dom Pedro II Striker - Ya know what makes all of this vastly more difficult is that A) she lives right down the hall from me, and B) is that we have all the same friends. We're part of one tightly-knit group, and its somewhat straining.

So when can you move?

	31-03-2003 09:00									#25
	Remove this text

Well, thankfully the semester is almost over, so I won't be seeing her after that. Just another month and a half or so... oh God!

	31-03-2003 09:02									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Cool, so you are almost there.

In the meantime, hang in there, try and make yourself as invisible as possible. You got a library you can go to? Pool hall? Ping pong? The gym? The pool? Some buddies off campus?

	31-03-2003 09:03									#27
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I'd also recommend a heavy bag. You'll feel much better after whacking it a few times.

	31-03-2003 09:04									#28
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I've been getting more friendly with some people upstairs... and God forbid I should actually do some real school work.

	31-03-2003 09:54									#29
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: For the past five months or so, blah, blah, blah blah, blah … HELP … blah, blah

Smartest thing you've said. You are in over your head. All ordinary men (ie, those who aren't sexual preditors of one sort or another) are in over their heads when it comes to women.

There is NO SUCH THING AS CASUAL SEX. Not for her, no matter what she says.

quote: God forbid I should actually do some real school work.

Ahem,
What about Civ?

	31-03-2003 09:56									#30
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ah, yes, Civ... if we get into civ then we get into the topic of what in the hell happened to my laptop... until it starts working, there shall be no civ. Right now I'm on the damned school computers which don't let me install stuff!