01-04-2003 03:30									#1
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... I was involved in what will be construed as a hate crime.

Here's the scenario:

I was comming out of my Methods of Reasoning class, where we just did some group work. This kid, Chad, who I've known to a limited degree, was in my group and seemed geniunely interested in my opinions about the evolution of Artificial Intelligence. Anyway, the class ended, and everyone got up to leave, and Chad goes up to me and asks me out. I say, as politely as possible, "oh, dude, i'm not gay".

then he takes my left hand and says "are you sure?" with this innuendo filled look on his face.

so i punched him in the face with my free right hand. the kid fell down hit a radiator, has a nice gash on the side of his face. The professor called Public Saftey and detained me until they arrived. I have an appointment this Friday to go in front of the school's judicial board, and theres always the chance that he could press criminal charges.

ugh. anyone knowlegable in the law have anything i can use in my defense, especially if they make this out to be a hate crime? apparently the kid is a big player in the schools "Pride Alliance", the gay club on campus. double ugh.

	01-04-2003 03:32									#2
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Why the hell did you hit him in the first place...

	01-04-2003 03:32									#3
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LMAO! you done punched wrong homo!

	01-04-2003 03:33									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus Why the hell did you hit him in the first place...

because i'm a homophobe, duh.

i have a calc review to go to from 6-9, and i wanna eat some quick dinner, so i'll check back later

	01-04-2003 03:34									#5
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quote: anyone knowlegable in the law have anything i can use in my defense

Yeah. Apologise profusely and agree to inevitable anger management. Be a good boy and remember to keep it in your pants from now on.

	01-04-2003 03:35									#6
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You were both morons.

	01-04-2003 03:36									#7
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Have the guy you punched charged with sexual harrasment.

	01-04-2003 03:36									#8
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A lot will have to do with what you felt his intent was when he grabbed your hand.

Your school probably has some type of legal aid for students. It would be a good idea to consult them before you make any statements to anyone about this.

Good Luck...Hope it works out okay for you.

	01-04-2003 03:37									#9
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not an overly bright thing to do. best bet is to say that you're under a lot of stress and on that particular day you just couldn't handle things, that it was a one off thing and you're REALLY sorry blah, blah, blah.

of course if things get shitty (and there weren't any witnesses) you could say he grabed your balls. i wouldn't advise this though

	01-04-2003 03:38									#10
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this has imran written all over it

	01-04-2003 03:39									#11
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Offer him a blow job if he drops the case.

	01-04-2003 03:41									#12
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The guy came on when it was clear he wasn't wanted, which is obviously wrong - however, your response was WAY out of line. I hope you're given the punishment you deserve

	01-04-2003 03:42									#13
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You could also argue that it really made you mad when he asked "are you sure." and that he was insulting you. Thats what I thought for a sec.

EDIT: Even better say something like You've been quite confused over your sexuality recently and you thought some straight punk came over and pulled aprank on you. Being so recently sensitive on the issue, you went out of hand and punched him. Wow Im good.

	01-04-2003 03:44									#14
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Why the hell are you lot helping him? No offense to you as a person Uber, but I've been attacked for my sexuality and it is not a nice feeling.

	01-04-2003 03:48									#15
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon Why the hell are you lot helping him? No offense to you as a person Uber, but I've been attacked for my sexuality and it is not a nice feeling.

why not? If I grabbed a girl's hand and I got pepper sprayed. I dont think I should sue the girl for being a lesbo. I mean which girl wouldnt sleep with a man this sexy?


my main point is that while I have nothing agst minorities and want to see them have fair treatment, they shouldnt get extra treatment... aka blowing this out of porportion by prosecuting Uber so much for hitting a gay person.

	01-04-2003 03:51									#16
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Uber hit him BECAUSE he was gay however. He admitted it in this thread.

	01-04-2003 03:58									#17
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon Uber hit him BECAUSE he was gay however. He admitted it in this thread.

The way he wrote his post would seem to suggest otherwise...

quote: he takes my left hand and says "are you sure?" with this innuendo filled look on his face.

And then he punched him. It's not as if Uber just walked up to him and punched him because he was gay, with no provocation.

	01-04-2003 03:59									#18
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That's true, which makes him different with the guys who got me. This just strikes a chord.

	01-04-2003 04:12									#19
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon That's true, which makes him different with the guys who got me. This just strikes a chord.

I can certainly understand that, but this just isn't the same kind of "attack on sexuality" that, say, the purposeful beating or harassing of a gay student is. While punching anybody out of anger like this is obviously uncalled for, it doesn't seem significantly worse than punching somebody for insulting your mother or something. It just doesn't look like a hate crime to me.

	01-04-2003 04:12									#20
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Well, one way or another I hope you learn to calm down after this, man. I've been picked up by gay guys before(I'm like poison to straight women, but gay guys think I'm like Tom Cruise, apparently), and the worst I've ever done is give 'em the cold shoulder to get them to go away. And I treat a lot of other people that way too...at any rate, unless the guy has serious medical bills I don't think he'll go through with the hucking fassle of pressing charges, especially since, if things went as you describe them, you did not initiate the whole sequence of events, even if you certainly did end them. I'm no legal expert, but provided I got an apology I sure wouldn't bother pressing charges in that guy's situation.

	01-04-2003 04:15									#21
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quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 I can certainly understand that, but this just isn't the same kind of "attack on sexuality" that, say, the purposeful beating or harassing of a gay student is. While punching anybody out of anger like this is obviously uncalled for, it doesn't seem significantly worse than punching somebody for insulting your mother or something. It just doesn't look like a hate crime to me.

I agree.

	01-04-2003 04:21									#22
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I think the "if he presses charges, then I'll press sexual harrasment charges as well" deal is the best bet. Let the University know this as well and if they don't try to settle the situation claim sexual descrimination because they would surly do something if you were a girl and he was a straight guy.

	01-04-2003 04:24									#23
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If you want to stay in school be as remorseful as you can, and invent some story of an adult man coming on to you as a kid. The PC police will have a field day with this and will try to nail you no matter what. So play it smart.

	01-04-2003 04:29									#24
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Question:

How many witnesses were there? If there were a few, I'd try to file a counter-charges and start lining up character witnesses to show that you really don't have a bias.

Did you even know he was gay up until he asked you out? If you didn't, I assume that you could argue that you hit him because he was an ass, not because he was a homosexual.

What are the penalties for this anyway? I assume at the very least there will be counseling and probation with the school and possibly suspension at the worst. I assume that a hate-motivated assault would merit expulsion...

	01-04-2003 04:31									#25
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal I think the "if he presses charges, then I'll press sexual harrasment charges as well" deal is the best bet. Let the University know this as well and if they don't try to settle the situation claim sexual descrimination because they would surly do something if you were a girl and he was a straight guy.

The problem is that this doesn't look like sexual harassment. In general SH in a case like this has to be "persistent". If you punched him about 10 seconds after he first asked you, you will have a problem making the case for persistence.

Whatever you do, don't try to claim that you are the wronged party, even if you are. The system in universities is stacked in favour of women and gays due to fear of negative publicity. That means whatever rules they have tend to only apply if you aren't a straight white guy (this is sad but true: I've seen several examples in my University career - usually a university is quite content to break its own rules for political ends). If you decide to fight back every lunatic on campus will attempt to pillory you and the university will not help at all. Just go with the flow - it isn't worth jeopardising your education over such a small thing. If you were really being screwed then yes, but I imagine you'll be suspended for a couple of weeks and fined as a first offender.

One thing - absolutely don't sign anything the university puts in front of you unless a lawyer sees it first.

	01-04-2003 04:42									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon The problem is that this doesn't look like sexual harassment. In general SH in a case like this has to be "persistent". If you punched him about 10 seconds after he first asked you, you will have a problem making the case for persistence.

Yeah, I know this. I guess I was stretching the possibility because...

quote: Originally posted by Agathon Whatever you do, don't try to claim that you are the wronged party, even if you are. The system in universities is stacked in favour of women and gays due to fear of negative publicity. That means whatever rules they have tend to only apply if you aren't a straight white guy (this is sad but true: I've seen several examples in my University career - usually a university is quite content to break its own rules for political ends).

	01-04-2003 04:44									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Whatever you do, don't try to claim that you are the wronged party, even if you are. The system in universities is stacked in favour of women and gays due to fear of negative publicity. That means whatever rules they have tend to only apply if you aren't a straight white guy (this is sad but true: I've seen several examples in my University career - usually a university is quite content to break its own rules for political ends). If you decide to fight back every lunatic on campus will attempt to pillory you and the university will not help at all. Just go with the flow - it isn't worth jeopardising your education over such a small thing. If you were really being screwed then yes, but I imagine you'll be suspended for a couple of weeks and fined as a first offender. One thing - absolutely don't sign anything the university puts in front of you unless a lawyer sees it first.

The best advice so far.

All you should do at this point is express how much you regret the incident and your own actions.

And get a lawyer. Now.

	01-04-2003 04:45									#28
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quote: You were both morons.

Yep.

quote: Did you even know he was gay up until he asked you out?

If you didn't, or rather, if nobody knows that you didn't, it would be pretty good to say this:

quote: Even better say something like You've been quite confused over your sexuality recently and you thought some straight punk came over and pulled aprank on you. Being so recently sensitive on the issue, you went out of hand and punched him

You got carried out by your emotions. How large is the 'gash'? If there wasn't much damage done (hopefully), just admit that you were an ass, try to apologise, regret what you did, etc.

quote: I hope you're given the punishment you deserve

...Which, in Finland that is, should be really mild if you simply admit being an ass there.

quote: Yeah. Apologise profusely and agree to inevitable anger management. Be a good boy and remember to keep it in your pants from now on.

For me, this looks like the best option, as stupid as it sounds...

	01-04-2003 04:59									#29
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The whole SH thing is a bit sad really. While it does prevent a lot of bad things happening it also leads to persecution at the hands of militant angry people who seem to think that their anger needs a cause. Here's some real life examples from my old school:

1. A mate of mine got caught keeping 63 pictures of naked women on his VAX account. The fact that the University isn't supposed to pry into his account or that he was not over his allotted disk space didn't seem to matter to them (in other words they had no right to look). They then attempted to charge him with SH despite the fact that no-one was the victim (I pointed out to his lawyer that this standard would make it an offence to bring a copy of Playboy onto campus even if it never left your knapsack). Others were similarly charged. In the end they got fined because the university threatened to put a black mark on their records if they attempted to hire a lawyer to clear themselves. So good old blackmail from the uni there.

2. A university teacher refused to raise the mark of a female student who came to his office to complain about her grade. I knew this guy, he was about as likely to harass someone as Jimmy Carter. Nevertheless, she accused him of trying to jump her in his office. The wheels of officialdom went into motion and he was formerly charged and threatened with suspension all at her word. Luckily, a friend of hers spilled the beans that it was all lies. He attempted to charge her with harassment, but the university wouldn't do it.

3. An RA at my previous school is accused of rape by a resident. He is kicked out of school and blacklisted by the local community. Eventually his parents' private detective manages to prove that he was 150 miles away when the rape was supposed to have taken place. The victim then admits that she faked it so she could get an aegrotat pass on her exams. The police refuse to file charges against her (although the university expels her) and the university feminist group continues to back her.

Bad stuff, huh.

	01-04-2003 05:26									#30
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Man oh man oh man that was dumb of you, uberkrux... jeeeesh.