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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:27
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I forgot to add that another big advantage of early Republic is that when it is given to the AI immediately, most switch and become much faster research assistants. Add a few trade routes and they almost compete with the human.
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Elephant
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Phila PA
Aug 2002
time: 00:27
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wow.
gulp.
OK, I guess it is time to get serious about mastering Early Republic. When I have played Monarchy->MarcoPolo I like to follow by shooting for Philosophy next, with Republic after Literacy as my off-path tech. I then gift it to every other civ right after discovery, mostly because it tends to "pacify" them (especially the Mongols, like in EL1). I wait on switching until my terrain mods are done and I am ready to start WLTCD. A fair amount of tribute comes along too, but I need MarcoPolo to see if they have enough $$$ that they will give gold rather than unwanted bypassed techs. I had not thought about the faster AI research benefits, which might cut two ways if I am in a race for getting something critical (I was sweating part of EL#2 as the Celts got Astronomy before I did; I got it the next turn in exchange but they were nearing finishing a wonder and I did not have enough camels or gold around to rush it; they completed KingRichards without switching and I was able to bring several camels back home). I have occasionaly tried tech-bombing an AI's KeyCiv to speed up a critical research I did not want to do myself (worked twice I can think of; also failed twice I can think of too). I like to gift happiness (Cer/Mys/Cur/Ban) and research (Wri/Uni) techs to everyone as soon as I get them. The only caveat with helping the AI research is the old "you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot MAKE him drink": I have often found that two or three of the other civs WILL NOT switch to Republic; I have had to give them Monarchy to get them out of Despotism. Later they will switch, but they seem to have more trouble with unrest. These seem to be the more Militaristic civs (Spanish, Russians, Greeks, etc), and even though I give them everything they need for happiness and research they WILL NOT build those improvements; they are too busy cranking out Chariots and looking for a neighbor to "bang heads".
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:27
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I usually do not tech bomb an AI's key civ, since this may change power ratings and key civs. It also makes the target of the techs useless for further research. You never know what they might have been able to learn on your behalf later on.
I agree about how you can't make them drink! The Russians & Zulus (replaced later by the Japanese) in this game were about next to useless for research. The other problems are when they won't choose what you want them to pick next for research and when they don't ask for the pre-requisites you really want to give them.
In my game my best research assistants were the English, who were mighty and keyed on themselves and the Persians who keyed on my lead. As expansionists, the English seemed to like that part of the tech tree in this game, which suited my plans very well. This did not last too long, though, since they ruined things by building the Great Library which added so many techs to their total that they got bogged down. However, they did more than expected, so I had no complaints.
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Elephant
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Phila PA
Aug 2002
time: 00:27
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EL#3 (Medium Map) Pre-Game Analysis:
Here is something you can do in MapEditor just using the 4000BC view and some trial and error (for "luddites" like La Fayette). This gives you some early "goals" as you explore and look for a good SSC spot.
After finding the right place in MapEditor to draw the visible starting terrain, increment the Resource Seed from 2 upwards till you get a similar arrangement of specials to what is visible in the game. If they are then of the wrong "type" (there are only two options) add 16 to the seed until the type and location is right. Watch the hut placement as well, as some of the +16s will move the hut to the wrong place.
After setting this up I then look at special groups and plot the centers of 3x and 4xSpecials. In the image below (click to open in a second window) I have marked the two closest 4x sites with cities (Romans and Russians), as well as other 3x and 4x sites nearby (with Desert tiles). These are worth directing your exploration toward early on to see if they can be settled. Note that some of these specials may be hidden under grass, as one of the visible ones must be; Mining the grass should produce either a Pheasant or Silk, which can then be turned into Buffalo or Wheat by your early Settlers.
In this game it looks like the specials come in horizontal "bands" that are all-Whale or all-Fish. Whale specials have more options for high-trade (Whale, Silk, Spice, Wine, Furs) while Fish specials tend to be high-food (Fish, Pheasant, Oasis, MuskOx) although the highest trade special, Gold, is Fish-based.
Warning: Click here for helper image!
Last edited by Elephant on 08-04-2003 at 23:44
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Bloody Monk
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austin, tx
May 2001
time: 23:27
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Congratulations, Solo. Another great finish!!
And, oh, yeah, BTW, RATS!!
I have only a few turns done, but enough to have seen the river system. I was considering a similar strat, using river cities and Lux to delay temples while going for MPE. I found out the last game how useful MPE could be and I was looking for something, anything, to get an advantage. But, there is no stopping you. Great game!!
With 615, you set a formidable marker for the rest of us. Playing for second , now.
Monk
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rjmatsleepers
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quote:
Originally posted by Elephant
Perhaps you are looking at the Large map start? I was referring to the Medium. |
I had a look at the pattern of the specials produced by seed 7 and 15. They are identical apart from a translation of 4 tiles to the left. There seems to be a number of cases where this relationship holds between the pattern for a particular seed and the pattern for the seed 8 higher. (The pattern for the huts is different.)
So either 7 or 15 will identify the specials for you, depending where you put your land. Of course the "date line" will be in a different place, and this will have an impact on trade, but I don't think you would use the map editor for that. Since the grid references seem to be different between the map editor and the game itself I'm not sure what the "correct" location is - presumably it has to be related to the (0,0) tile.
RJM at Sleepers
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rjmatsleepers
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quote:
Originally posted by Cliff
615AD is very impressive Solo!
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"very impressive"? I find it mind blowing!
Well done Solo.
I've reached AD 1650 and I'm researching the steam engine. I'm begining to wonder if I'm cut out for early landing games.
RJM at Sleepers
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:27
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Thanks RJM and Monk,
615 was surprising and unexpected for me, too! Besides the new opening strategy, some good breaks, an uncommonly good SSC site, and many excellent trading opportunities all game, made a big difference. Heck, thanks to the SCG "switch", I even got a supply of Uranium once in Cordoba, which I was able to deliver to the SSC for a big jackpot. I expect to see other results below 1000 AD, too.
I knew that early Republic is the best choice, but had trouble making a good case for this in the first two games, but now see that when it is coupled with early trade and MPE, the results can be even better than I anticipated.
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Elephant
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Phila PA
Aug 2002
time: 00:27
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I do "Pre Game Analysis" at work during lunch, and play in the late evening after "Honey-Do's" and kids in bed. I'm still finishing EL#2, but my preps for EL#3 Medium are now focusing on trying another strategy: Early Trade (5 techs) with immediate Marco Polo. If I'm lucky CerBur or Lit may already be available, perhaps even Monarchy...
Just thought I'd get my foot in the door before someone trumps me...
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:27
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Elephant,
A good plan, and something I'm going to try on the large map game.
All,
I have finished my log, so will post it here:
ELG #3, Vikings, medium map
BC Years
3950 Trondheim, Kaupang
Trondheim was the SSC, having two silk and two hidden specials of the same group. 10 rivers and only 3 plains among the grassland made this the best SSC site we’ve had so far in EL games. The only drawback was the amount of time it would take to road, irrigate and transofrm it into final shape.
3850 Alphabet
3750 Kau – warrior
3550 Code of Laws
3200 Tro – settlers, Writing
Besides speeding research, the rivers expedite the arrival of new settlers to the next helper locations, allowing new cities to be founded more quickly.
3150 Zulus destroyed by the barbarians
3050 Uppsala
3000 Kau – settlers
2900 Hladir
2800 Kau – warrior
Now Kaupang began working on MPE.
2750 Bronze Working
2450 Tro – settlers
2400 Barbs attack Trondheim, but warrior defends, Literacy
2050 Republic, Viborg
1950 Hla – settlers
1900 Currency
1850 Roskilde
Taking a cue from SG(2) and others, I am going to add more helpers this game, intending 7 home cities early on with just one colony while in Republic.
1750 Trade
1700 Hla – food, Tro – food
1650 Upp – gems
1600 Kau – Marco Polo’s Embassy, Indians – trade for Map Making and Masonry, share maps, give tech; Spanish – give tech, share maps
MPE showed me that the AI had 8 techs I lacked, so I traded for the ones needed immediately and gifted some techs to the Spanish to allow research of techs that were needed. On first contact all AI were gifted Republic.
1550 Banking, Aar – trireme, Persians – give tech, share maps; Spanish – give tech, share maps
Again, trying to steer research. The Spaniards picked an unuseful tech. This selective use of tech gifts continued, but was not overdone, to keep AI research rates high enough to be of potential use. If I could not give the tech I wanted to, I did not keep giving but would cut a session short, and just wait until they finished researching the current redundant tech. I suppose an alternative strategy might be to gift everything to everyone, and hope that the AI tip a lot of new techs from huts, but if they don’t, MPE will have been wasted and the AI may win the race to an important wonder. You can never take a tech back once it has been given away.
1500 Russians – give tech, share maps
1450 Vib – wine, Japanese – give tech, share maps
The Japanese replaced the Zulu, destroyed earlier by the barbs.
1400 Mathematics
1300 English – give tech, share maps
1150 Ros – wine, Hla – dye, Tro –hides
The SSC was also a hides repeater, which simplified early commodity supply and made it much easier to maintain demand.
1100 Upp – dye, Rus – trade for Iron Working; Indians – give tech, share maps
Iron Working was all the Russians were good for. Two other AI had been learning it as well, so big deal.
1050 Kau – settlers, Construction, Vib – trireme, Indians – trade for Mysticism, share maps, wine(d) to Cordoba, 206g
Trade was off and running before 1000 AD, and from here on there was no looking back, since supply and demand was easy to match and a good trading partner was close by. Early trade in this game was the most lucrative I remember in any EL game, and allowed me to build more triremes than usual to speed caravans to AI coastal cities, which were numerous.
1000 Tro – hides, Ros – trireme
975 Bridge Building, gems(d) to Madrid, 209g
950 Aar – settlers, Tro – hides
925 Philosophy, Astronomy, English, give tech, share maps; Persians – trade for The Wheel, share maps, Spanish – give tech, share maps
The English received Astronomy, to set them up to study Navigation, since they already had Seafaring. They did pick Navigation and after that cheered me greatly by going for Physics without any time consuming side trips. The Persians and Spanish were set up to allow the study of Engineering. They alternated as the civ keying on my tech lead, with the Spanish doing this first. At this time my tech total was 20, which boosted my tech costs, but all the AI except the key civ were still below that amount. It was during this period that they would have a chance to learn some useful techs in time for trades. My use of 40% luxuries to maintain happiness was also keeping my own pace of research at 60% instead of the usual 80%. Postponing temples in all cities allowed trade to begin earlier and allowed routes to the AI to be established in time to boost their research rates, while providing me with more gold than I had ever been used to getting this early in a no hut game. In addition, without any temples, there were not any maintenance costs yet, so taxes could be kept at zero.
900 Tro – diplomat, wine(d) to Toledo, 220g
875 Hla – wine
850 Aar – gold, Upp – wool, Medicine, Tro – hides, dye(d) to Madrid, 256g; hides(d) to Madrid, 240g
Delivery payments are starting to creep upwards, too, as tech costs mounted.
825 Ros – dye, Vib – settlers, Kau – dye, Tro – hides
800 Tro – Shakespeare’s Theater, we love begins, University, barb leader, 150g
Before building Shakespeare’s I gave considerable thought to the idea of trading for Pottery and going with the Hanging Gardens first. This would have allowed for a cheaper celebration and I could have set the research rate up to 80%, but HG just expires too soon and involves adding an off path tech, Pottery. Just two more caravans permitted a very early and permanent ST, and I was still committed to developing the SSC first and as quickly as possible. Had the SSC site been average or worse, perhaps HG and more cities would have been the better alternative, and is still something that I would like to test in a future game. With science only at 60%, it was less likely I would have to learn useful techs first that I knew the AI were working on. With good delivery payments from caravans, I was still moving at a good clip through the tech tree.
775 Upp – settlers, Tro – hides
750 Russians – they demand gold, no deal, war
725 Ros – hides, Hla – settlers, Kau – dye, Tro – hides
700 Tro – Colossus, English – give tech, share maps
675 Aar – dye, Tro – size 8
650 hides(d) to Toledo, 410g, Russians – peace, give tech, share maps
625 Theory of Gravity, Tro – aqueduct
I am starting to run out of things to research while waiting for the AI to come up with Engineering.
550 Ros – dye, Vib – silk, Tro –hides, size 12, we love ends
525 Aar – hides
500 Kau – wine, The Udal, Spanish – trade for Engineering and Ceremonial Burial; Persians – give tech, share maps; Japanese – give tech, share maps; hides(d) to London, 500g
The Spanish were first to Engineering, and this was expedited with all the early trading with their cities. With that tech in hand, my trading switched to the English cities to hasten their progress towards Physics. With a fairly good sized fleet, it was easier to make timely deliveries farther away to coastal English cities. If they could learn Physics before I was forced to trade for Navigation, I could leapfrog into part of the Renaissance tech tree and postpone the hit given to caravan delivery payments normally incurred by the acquisition of Navigation. In addition, I would be able to research Magnetism and build some galleons for some really profitable Renaissance trading, a welcome novelty. The first colony, The Udal, was established on the island in front of the English. At this point in the game I knew I had a really good result shaping up, but still did not think something as early as 615 was in the making.
475 Economics, Ros – temple, Vib – temple, Aar – temple, Hla – hides, Upp – dye, Tro – gems
450 The – salt, Tro – wool, dye(d) to Hastings, 288g
425 Hla – temple, Upp – temple, Kau – temple, Tro – Copernicus’s Observatory, Indians – give tech, share maps
Even though trade was going very well, it was easier to build wonders than SSC city improvements, and Copernicus was added before I had built a library or university. Since it doubles science, it deserved to be first.
400 Chemistry, English – trade for Physics, give tech, share maps
375 Tro – diplomat, barb legion bribed, 81g
325 hides(d) to York, 485g
300 The – temple, Sanitation, Tro – gold, we love resumes, gems(d) to Hastings, 522g; wine(d) to London, 380g
These kinds of caravan payoffs are probably what made this game really take off, since a lot of gold and beakers were provided at the time in a game when caravan trade is ordinarily diminished by entry into the Renaissance. I intended to learn everything I could above Physics, before being forced to study Invention.
275 The – diplomat, Magnetism, Tro – sewer system, Vib – silk, Aar – gold, Hla – wool, Upp – silk, Kau – dye, Tro – dye, Ros – galleon
Another advantage of skipping Navigation was that galleons could be built and put in place in time for the switch to Democracy. The usual problem of unhappy triremes needing a coastal SSC to rehome to was also avoided.
250 Spanish – give tech, share maps
200 Tro – library
175 Aar – wool, hides(d) to York, 540g
150 The – settlers, Atomic Theory, Ros – wool, Kau – gold, Tro – university, Persians – trade for Monotheism
Since Monotheism was learned by the Persians, it was worth making this trade and bearing its carrying costs to build Michaelangelo’s. Colosseums end up costing more and need maintenance. Building this extra wonder now, did slow down the addition of SSC city economic improvements, but paid off later on by allowing more cities than usual.
125 Tro – Michaelangelo’s Chapel, silk(d) to St. Petersburg, 312g
100 Tro – wine, Invention, gold(d) to Toledo, 594g
75 Lindholm, barb leader, 150g
Lindholm was the second colony next to The Udal on their small island. Having more triremes around during the early part of this game allowed more opportunities to kill barb leaders. In the first two EL games, I did not get any leaders at all, but in this game managed to nab three.
50 Ros – gems, Vib – silk, Aar – gold, Upp – silk, Tro – gems, we love ends, size 21; Cordoba revolts for 104g; Japanese – war, English – trade for Seafaring, share maps; Indians – give tech, share maps
Cordoba was a Spanish city taken earlier by the barbarians. It was so cheap to bribe, it became another colony.
25 Lindholm – harbor, Democracy, switch made, The – harbor, dye(d) to Zimbabwe, 460g, riots incited and Zimbabwe becomes the next colony for 260g; Persians – give tech, share maps; Russians – war; Japanese – 50g tribute while in anarchy
Zimbabwe had been captured by the barbs near the beginning of the game when they eliminated the Zulus. It was a very nice size 5 city and came with 5 archers, quite a bargain for only 260 gold. I highly recommend using this method for adding colonies whenever the opportunity presents itself. The savings in time time and resources are considerable.
(to be continued)
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:27
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Ad Years
1 Ros – dye, Aar – gems, Tro – food, Steam Engine
20 Cor – harbor, Kau – dye, Tro – Sir Isaac Newton’s College
40 Railroad
60 Tro – dye, wine(d) to Hastings, 487g; English – trade for Gunpowder; Indians & Japanese – give tech, share maps; Russians – peace
Gunpowder was the last useful tech the English were able to learn because they had built the Great Library, and soon added many techs which slowed their research speed. However, the techs they did learn were timed very well with my own needs, and their quick assistance was due mainly to MPE and to the boost in their trade arrows that came from the trade routes I was able to establish with their coastal cities. If just one or two of the AI become good research assistants, the benefits can be considerable.
80 Industrialization, Ros – dye, Aar – gold, Hla – wine, Upp – dye, Zim – temple, Kau – spice, gems(d) to Hastings, 600g, we love begins for all cities
With Michaelangelo’s, helper and colony growth was much easier to manage and to finance. In the SSC, there was still a lot to do, even though 4 settlers had been working on its tiles full time.
100 Aar – harbor, Zim – harbor, The Corporation
120 Ros – harbor, Vib – silk, Kau – harbor, Tro – Darwin’s Voyage, Metallurgy, Explosives
I needed to build Darwin’s to rush to Explosives to get some engineers.
140 Kau – engineers, Lin – transport, dye(d) to London, 387g
160 The – dye, Cor – silver, Ros – engineers, Hla – harbor, Upp – engineers, Zim – dye, Tro – engineers, barb leader, 150g
180 Tro – dye, Electricity, silk(d) to York, 330g, Indians, Russians, Japanese & Spanish – give tech, share maps
200 The – courthouse, Zim – transport, Vib – transport
220 Refining, dye(d) to Trondheim – 159g
This was one of the very few trades needed in this game to unblock supplies in Trondheim, the SSC. Earlier in the game, the city was a hides repeater, and later on, so many land transformations took place, that new commodities kept showing up to replace blocked ones. First the SSC was set to maximize food, to allow 30 citizens, then its wheat was turned back into silk and the two hidden specials were transformed into wine. These final 4 terrain changes kept 8 engineers busy for the 4 or 5 turns needed to complete them.
240 Tro – marketplace, dye(d) to Seville, 460g
260 Lin – silver, Ros – gems, silver(d) to Trondheim, 410g, Vib – courthouse, Kau – hides, Tro – dye, Steel
280 Tro – size 30, gems(d) to Hastings, 360g, dye(d) to Catnterbury, 648g, wine(d) to Canterbury, 370g
This is when trade really started to take off again, and deliveries to Canterbury during the rest of the game brought in thousands of gold. Once three routes were established there with the SSC, continual deliveries of high paying commodities were possible, because the base trade of Canterbury was not that high. Its distance from the home cities ensured hefty payments, though.
300 Lin – oil, Combustion, The – gold, Cor – dye, Ros – gold, Vib – harbor, Aar – engineers, Hla – engineers, Upp – harbor, Zim – oil, Kau – engineers, Tro – bank, hides(d) to York, 260g, dye(d) to Nottingham, 216g
320 Zim – transport, Automobile, English & Japanese – give tech, share maps, silver(d) to Trondheim – 370g, oil(d) to Trondheim – 518g, gold to Trondheim – 144g
340 Lin – dye, The – engineers, Ros – superhighways, Vib – engineers, Hla – gold, Upp – silver, Kau – cloth, Tro – dye, Mass Production, dye(d) to Hastings, 620g, Indians – give tech, share maps, silver(d) to Canterbury, 320g, gold(d) to Canterbury, 612g
360 Lin – temple, Conscription, The – spice, Cor – temple, Tro – superhighways, Electronics, Zim – transport, Persians – refuse to trade for Feudalism, refuse to go to war, revolution
With superhighways the SSC boosted its beaker potential from a little over 800 to over 1300! With a road on every city tile and with 10 of these on bridges, superhighways realized the great trade potential of this site. The SSC was so strong that none of the helpers or colonies had to build libraries or universities, or even work hard to maximize their base trade to squeeze out a few more beakers.
By this time the Persians had learned Feudalism, but had also applied their “noble minds” towards building Sun Tzu’s, which presented a problem. I needed Fedualism now, and if I could not get it somehow, was faced with having to learn Monarchy (only the Persians had Monarchy) and trade for Warrior Code in order to learn Feudalism myself. I could not reach a Persian city with a diplomat to incite a revolt until the following turn, an Oedo year. Since I didn’t have enough spare gold on hand to prevent an “incident” then, I had to revolt on this turn to enable a switch back to Democracy on the next.
380 Ros – hides, Vib – dye, Upp – beads, Tro – hides, government to Democracy, Indians – give tech, share maps, hides(d) to London, 800g, spice to Tro – 342g, hides to London, 213g, revolution, switch to despotism, riot incited in Pasargadae, 495g - 46g and Feudalism as plunder, reputation dips to Honorable, contact Persians – give tech, peace! Revolution, back to Democracy
An eventful turn, and Pasargadae turned out to be a good colony, too, providing excellent access to Persepolis and another Persian city. Once I had Feudalism the Persians gave up on Sun Tzu’s, too. Obtaining Feudalism without a delay was well worth a turn of anarchy, the slight reputation hit, and the high cost of inciting a revolt.
400 Nuclear Fission, Zim – superhighways, Tro – mass transit, Nuclear Power, English – trade for Horseback Riding, share maps, oil(d) to Trondheim, 936g, dye(d) to Hastings, 268g, dye(d) to Hastings, 176g
This was the first of several turns having two advances, which were easy to manage because of such excellent trading opportunities.
420 Chivalry, Ros – copper, Vib – gems, Aar – cloth, Hla – superhighways, Upp – oil, Tro – stock exchange, Leadership, Russians – war again; Spanish, Japanese and Persians – give tech, share maps, copper(d) to Toledo, 483g
440 Lin – beads, Cor – uranium, Tactics, uranium to Trondheim – 1026g, gold(d) to Persepolis, 1026g, Indians – give tech, share maps
Thanks to the SCG “switch” a supply of uranium had been uncovered during Cordoba’s city cycle turn, which was cashed in right away at the SSC! Players can benefit by getting into the habit of setting a city’s shields to zero on cycle turns to see whether commodity improvements are possible by doing so. Building Uranium beats the heck out of settling for something like beads!
460 Machine Tools, The – superhighways, Ros – wool, Vib – superhighways, Aar gold, Pas – wine, Hla – copper, Upp – dye, Kau – superhighways, Tro – wool, Laser, copper(d) to Madrid, 384g, wool(d) to The Udal, 360g, cloth(d) to Arbela, 697g, Indians – give tech, share maps
480 Lin – superhighways, Miniaturization, Cor – hides, Upp – superhighways, Zim – wine, Tro – dye, Computers, beads(d) to Persepolis, 702g, gems(d) to Madrid, 432g, dye(d) to Viborg, 219g, English – give tech, share maps, dye(d) to London, 360g
500 Flight, Ros – copper, Vib – gems, Aar – superhighways, Pas – superhighways, Hla – food, Kau – spice, Tro – research lab, Radio, Russians – give tech, share maps, cease fire, Jorvik, Westness, wine(d) to Lindolm, 214g, English – trade for Navigation, spice(d) to London, 480g, copper(d) to Canterbury, 324g, gold(d) to Canterbury, 468g, oil(d) to Canterbury, 476g
I’m anticipating a faster space ship, so started adding space contractors, such as Jorvik and Westness.
520 Advanced Flight, Lin – dye, The – airport, Cor – hides, Pas – airport, Upp – wine, Zim – cloth, Tro – airport, Rocketry, wine(d) to Nottingham, 280g, wool(d) to Nottingham, 824g, Jarrow
540 Wes – silk, Jor – copper, Ros – gold, Vib – food, Aar – oil, Hla – wine, Kau – dye, Tro – oil, Space Flight, Skara, dye(d) to Bombay, 956g, copper(d) to Delhi, 404g, oil(d) to Canterbury, 1206g, oil(d) to Canterbury, 546g, Indians – trade for Warrior Code, give tech, share maps
560 Jar – oil, Lin – food, The – food, Cor – hides, Pas – dye, Hla – Apollo Program, Upp – silver, Zim – dye, Tro – silk, Plastics, gold(d) to Pas – 395g, wine(d) to Canterbury, 340g, wine(d) to Canterbury, 405g, dye(d) to London, 364g, dye to Aarhus, 123g
580 Ska – oil, Jar – SS structural, Wes – dye, Jor – SS structural, Lin – SS structural, The – SS structural, Cor – SS structural, Ros – dye, Vib – salt, Aar – gold, Pas – hides, Hla – SS structural, Upp – SS structural, Zim – SS structural, Kau – spice, Tro – oil, Super Conductor, Persians – give tech, share maps, silk(d) to The – 923g, spice(d) to London, 328g, oil(d) to Canterbury, 1260g, gold(d) to Canterbury, 480g, Ravning Enge
600 Rav – SS component, Ska – SS structural, Jar - SS structural, Wes - SS structural, Jor - SS structural, Lin – SS module, The - SS structural, Cor - SS structural, Ros – SS component, Vib – SS module, Aar – SS component, Hla – SS component, Upp – SS component, Zim - SS structural, Kau – SS component, Tro – SS module, Fusion Power, 15-3-3-1-1-1, launch, ETA 615 AD
There was over 700 gold left over. It’s just the way things went this game!
601 Persians retake Pasargadae for a little revenge
602 Persians capture Skara to show they mean business
615 Arrival on Alpha Centauri
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Elephant
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Phila PA
Aug 2002
time: 00:27
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quote:
Originally posted by solo
Elephant,
A good plan, and something I'm going to try on the large map game. |
I'll keep my mouth shut next time...
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Cliff
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I started to write a more detailed log after switching to Republic. With a large empire, turns take longer and I have only managed to play till 300AD. I hope I will finish this game next week.
My plan was to have 30 size 18 cities with libraries by 500AD and I also wanted a road and ship network and 30 techs. This would be the day when I would start to get 2 advances per turn. How am I doing compared to this plan?
When it comes to infrastructure I am slightly behind the schedule. Most cities are size 8 and waiting for an aqueduct to be built so they can continue to grow. Cities have 1-2 trade routes each and I'm starting to make lots of money thanks to delivery bonuses so I will start rush buying aqueducts now. I can't buy all aqueducts at once though which would be required to get all cities to size 18 within 10 turns.
On the other hand, research is faster than I expected. I have 31 techs and I just got my first one turn discovery this turn and next turn I will discover something as well. I wonder if I can sustain this pace? With 70% science I get an advance every 2 turns but I get most beakers from caravans at the moment so I use a lower science rate. I have used mostly domestic trade early in the game thinking my bigger cities would compensate for the same civ penalty but after delivering a simple dye caravan to the Zulus I realised this was not the case. I will focus more on foreign trade from now on.
Here is the short log (60AD - 300AD):
60 Form Republic
80 Theology, Michelangelo's Chapel built in Trondheim
120 Gems (d) to Aarhus 192g (R), Silk (d) to Lindholm 138g
140 Gems (d) to Trelleborg 164g
160 Madrid builds Lighthouse, Engineering, Gold (d) to Trondheim 240g (R)
200 Trondheim builds JSB, Silver (d) to Uppsala 290g (R), SSC size 8
220 Medicine, Banking + Bridge Building from English, Silk (d) to Trondheim 294g (R), Copper (d) to Viborg 156g
240 Astronomy from Indians, give all to Indians
260 Dye (d) to Jarlshof 200g
280 Sanitation, Silver (d) to Trelleborg 304g (R), Gems (d) to Jorvik 270g, Silk (d) to The Udal 270g, Iron Working from Zulus
300 University, Dye (d) to Zimbabwe 456g (R), Wool (d) to Risby 224g
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:27
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Cliff,
I hope you find time to continue. You've built quite an empire in so short a time, and still might cruise to a pre-1000 AD landing, something most others could not even accomplish using huts. If I'm not mistaken, I think SG(2)'s earlier large map game with huts was the only one using a similar approach that achieved a landing before 1000 AD.
SG(2),
I have started on my large map game and do not expect much. Although the SSC site is a good one, helper locations are just adequate, and things are going much slower so far than in the medium map game.
You will see the difference when you start playing your medium map game, and I bet I see some competitive landing dates from you and others. That start was just about ideal for making early landing attempts.
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rjmatsleepers
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Governments
Republic 1650 BC
Democracy AD 1540
Wonders
ST ~AD 740
Copernicus AD 300
Isaac's AD 1560
Darwin's AD 1740
Apollo AD 1818
SSC stats
size 8 AD 780
size 12 AD 1000
size 21 AD 1180
max. size 23 (AD 1788)
Techs
Trade 725 BC
Invention AD 1380
Railroad AD 1660
Automobile AD 1752
Nuclear Power AD 1784
Computers AD 1794
Flight AD 1780
Space Flight AD 1808
AC arrival AD 1850
Abbreviated log
Medium map; no techs; no huts
3950 BC Trondheim founded (59,69); start researching alphabet
3850 BC Kaupang founded (55,65)
3000 BC Uppsala founded (64,66)
2650 BC Hladier founded (48,60)
2450 BC pop 100k (1st)
2050 BC Toynbee says we are 3rd most advanced Civ
1650 BC Viking Republic
1350 BC pop 210k (1st)
500 BC Arhus founded (70,68)
250 BC Pop 310k (4th)
AD 1 Only 16 techs - my worse start for ages!
AD 160 pop 410k (5th)
AD 340 pop 520k (5th)
AD 380 Roskilde founded (60,52)
AD 1600 The Udall founded (57,75)
AD 1730 Lindholm founded (67,71)
1840 launch arrival due 1855
AD 1845 Gibbon says we are the most advanced civ!
Comments
I got off to a poor start - some bad strategy; some bad luck; some bad tactical choices and a few really stupid mistakes. The saving grace (which will apply to us all) was the repeating supply of hides from the SSC. It gave me over 300 beakers and (net) more than 100 gold per turn. So no competition for Solo, but at least it was a new personal best for a no tech, no hut game.
RJM at Sleeoers
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rjmatsleepers
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And the save
RJM at Sleepers
 Attachment: ca_a1854.sav
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:27
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RJM,
I agree with SG(2), since you've knocked another 50 years off your previous best. At this pace you'll be under 1000 AD by ELG #20, which would be about the number of times it would take any newcomer to do as well. You've zeroed in on many things you can change in the next game and with more practice you will get the hang of getting earlier dates.
If you want some more frustration, though, try the large map game. My own attempt is going poorly so far.
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:27
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Zenon,
A fine result with early Monarchy! I also considered the 3 whale site for an SSC, because there was so much to do to develop the other, but as you noted, my SSC didn't look back once superhighways were in place.
Oh, and welcome to the pre-1000 AD landing club! I think some of the others will be joining us soon, and will also be surprised by how fast their games go. This setup was about ideal for early landing attempts. I don't expect us to be challenging these surprising dates for quite some while.
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Zenon
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ELCG 3 Medium Map, Wikings, 775AD Landing
3950 Trondheim
3900 Kaupang
3850 CB
3500 Alphabet
3100 Reading
2800 Uppsala
2750 Hladir, a 3 whale site with 7 grassland and 10 ocean fields is an interesting alternative as SSC
2250 Monarchy , Aarhus
1900 after a long deliberation I decide to go for Hladir as SSC. Comparison of the 2 sites:
Trade: the differences would only come after celebrating beyond size 6 or 7. Hladir could add 2 or 3 (10 ocean fields) beakers for every citizen but would suffer from corruption. Trondheim would add 2 beakers for every new citizen but add 8 more once bridges had been build (9 river fields). Fully developed Trondheim would have appr. 10 % more in trade base, but Hladir might be able to go to size 21 earlier. After superhighways Trondheim would go through the roof with 2 techs a turn possible.
Work needed in settler turns Trondheim: 155 + mining Hladir: 36
Other: Trondheim: magnetism before democracy, may be explosives too,
Hladir: Courthouse, Harbour, Triremes can be rehomed for smooth transition of ship lines, Trondheim as a strong second city
I thought that Hladir could compete until building superhighways. It might have an early advantage in growth. It would save resources in settlers. I was too curious to know if the Hladir approach would give a reasonable result. It would also give an interesting comparison to the other games.
Strategy: early SSC growth, trade and ship lines, shortening rennaissance, getting one tech a turn as soon as possible and after superhighways using the appr. 20 turns to prepare a quick launch, I just regretted I had allready chosen Monarchy. ELCG 3 was perfect for early Republic.
1800 Bronce Working
1700 Viborg,
1650 Roskilde
1550 Currency, Zulus, exchange Mysticism, Peace
1200 Trade
975 MPE, no techs available that I could use at the moment, Russians peace maps, Zulu maps, Spanish demand gold war, Persians war, English peace no maps, Indians peace maps
950 Literacy
875 Spanish Peace maps, Persians peace maps
825 Republic, first delivery, dye Roskilde Zimbabwe (d) 136 gold
800 silk to Zimbabwe (d) 200g
775 Philosophy, Banking
700 wine to Cordoba (d) 206 g
675 Medicine, dye Trondheim Madrid (d) 202g, trade for Masonry,
650 Building
600 hides Trondheim Cordoba (d) 206g,
575 Mathematics
525 Shakes, beads to Madrid 140g, exchange The Wheel
475 Hides Trondheim SSC (d) 64 g, SSC unblocked
450 SSC size 8, Astronomy, a ship line is now in place allowing deliveries in 2 turns
400 dye to Cordoba (d)168g
375 wine to Cordoba (d) 364g, my persian friends develop Engineering just in time, exchange Engineering, now I do get to Sanitation in time
350 Sanitation, SSC size 12, Trondheim size 6, gold Aarhus Cordoba (d) 398g, Cordoba is an excellent trading destination, close enough for the ship line and with changing demands of gold, wine, dye and hides
300 University, hides Trondheim Cordoba (d)308g, dye Kaupang Cordoba 156g, SSC Library, exchange Ceramics, can´t wait, I need a harbour
275 Seafaring,
225 Colossus,
200 SSC Harbour, just in time to continue celebration
175 Economics, SSC University, wine Viborg Cordoba (d) 250g, dye to Cordoba (d) 340g
125 Invention, SSC size 21, SSC Courthouse, wine to Cordoba 470g,
100 Copernicus, advances every 2 turns now, with the SSC complete (only NC missing) I hope for a short Rennaissance period, Discover Democracy
75 Navigation
25 Democracy, exchange Iron Working
AD
1 Theory of Gravity, beads to Cordoba 200g
20 Physics, Newton´s
40 Bridge Building
80 Magnetism, Galleons are added to the ship lines. dye to Cordoba 202 g
100 Steam Engine
120 gold Trondheim Cordoba (d) 318g
140 Railways, gems to Madrid (d) 520g, Lindholm a colony close to the English
160 Gun Powder, dye to Cordoba 136g
180 Industrialization, Copper Roskilde Cordoba (d) 99g, beads to Cordoba 140g, Jorvik, a colony
200 Corporation, so far the strategy worked. Since invention I had only 1 turn without a tech advance. silk Trondheim Cordoba 79g, silk to SSC 79g,
220 Metallurgy, dye to London (d) 592g
240 Chemistry, Gold Trondheim Cordoba (d) 354g
260 Explosives, Spices Kaupang London (d) 336, beads to London 296
280 Electricity, gems Aarhus Nottingham (d) 246g, copper Viborg Cordoba (d) 146g, wine Uppsala York (d) 230g
300 Refinery, silk Trondheim Madrid (d) 468g, dye to Cordoba (d) 420g
320 Steel, exchange chivalry, dye Aarhus Cordoba (d) 184g, beads to London 304g, silk Kaupang London (d) 156g
340 Combustion, SSC size 26, dye to Cordoba (d) 420g, Trondheim Gold to Cordoba (d) 390g, Westness, a colony founded by the last remaining settler. He spend ages along the ship supply line and I never found time to send a ship to go for a good site. Trade had priority.
360 Automobile, SSC superhighways, Trondheim University, Spices Viborg to London (d) 256g, Jarrow, Skara, I add a few helper citys to start building caravans
The science beakers stopped just short of the second advance. But I couldn´t have upheld 2 techs a turn anyway. This is the week part of this SSC. With 966 Science Beakers at 100% it has approximately 30% less than the Trondheim site would have had. I will need 19 or 20 turns to Fusion power and will try to use this time to prepare a quick launch.
380 Leadership, gems Trondheim SSC 86g, SSC unblocked, Salt Lindholm SSC 169g
400 Electronics, Spanish develop Atomic Theory; tech bombing their key civ worked, dye to Cordoba (d) 666g, a double supply line connecting the SSC, three colonies, Cordoba, Nottingham, London and York is now complete, allowing constant 1 turn deliveries. With weak helper cities I need as many deliveries from the SSC and Trondheim as possible.
420 conscription, Trondheim superhighways, gold Trondheim Cordoba (d) 746g, SSC wonder bread, was blocked again, the last thing I need now is a constantly blocked SSC, Kaupang wonder bread doesn´t work, oil Jorvik SSC (d) 676g,
440 Tactics, dye Trondheim Cordoba (d) 528g, dye to London 476g
460 Mass Production, Spanish almost complete Darwins Voyage, I love my Spanish friends!  I didn´t plan to build it myself, I will need all ressources for the spaceship, Trondheim wonder bread, gems London 466g, Spanish exchange Atomic Theory, give all techs
480 Machine Tools, Spanish develop Flight and Mobile Warfare  , gold Trondheim Cordoba (d) 836g, dye London 386g, exchange Flight, loosing Colossus and diminishing trade was not my intention, but going for airports earlier will help to keep the trade going, I don´t think I will have problems with the tech pace. The trade beaker comparison now between the SSC and Trondheim (including the trade bonuses): 110 to 89!
500 Radio, dye Trondheim London 246g, gems London 256g, Ravning Enge, the last colony founded
520 Minitiarurization, SSC, Trondheim, 3 colonies airports, Lindholm SSC oil (d) 548g, Lindholm silk to Trondheim (d)440g Lindholm SSC beads 157g
540 Computers, dye Viborg Cordoba (d) 120g, gold Trondheim London 226g, dye to London 258g, silk Westness to Trondheim (d) 414g, silk Jorvik Trondheim (d) 467g
560 Advanced Flight, SSC laboratory, dye Jorvik SSC 176g
580 Nuclear Fission, dye Trondheim Madrid (d)436g, oil Trondheim SSC (d) 387g, a better result than some deliveries to the AI with a trading distance of 10 only, airports, superhighways and a qualified railway give a reasonable return. The reason I did this was to unblock both cities. I am quite often struggling with blocked commodities. With a population of 8 Trondheim has often brought better trade results than the SSC, both in own deliveries and commodities from the colonies. Without this strong second city I would have had a hard time
600 Rocketry, dye Trondheim Cordoba (d) 372g, dye to York (d) 548g
620 Nuclear Power, gems to London 266g, gold Trondheim London 234g, silk Ravning SSC 145g
640 Space Flight, Trondheim wonder bread, dye to Cordoba (d) 368g,
660 Laser, gold Trondheim Cordoba (d) 558g, dye to London 266g
680 Plastic, coal Ravning SSC (d) 434g, Trondheim wonder bread, exchange Polytheism
700 Superconductor
720 Apollo Program, gold Trondheim Cordoba (d) 558g
740 Fusion Power, a lonely scientist in Hladir completes this historical advance 
760 Launch, 15 – 3 – 3 – 1 – 1 – 1
775 AC Landing
An interesting game. My strategy worked troughout the game, something I wish would happen more often. The SSC was a bit weaker than I thought, often blocked and sitting on a tiny grassland peninsula I got what I deserved: beads, dye, gems and occasionally wine. I was just glad it wasn´t stock fish. The trade distance was a disadvantage, too. On the other hand Trondheim was an exceptional second city. I didn´t count the trade returns but they must have been close to the SSC. The tech trades were better than average, too: Engineering, Chivalry, Atomic Theory and Flight do not come often. The best part was that I could develop the SSC in the AD years and hold a one tech a turn pace, missing only a single turn since invention.
Considering the approach I am quite content with the result.
Zenon
Attachment: ca_a0774.sav
This has been downloaded 9 time(s).
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:27
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Zenon,
Thanks for that log, which provided a very interesting comparison between our two successful games. I'll really be interested in how you approach thigs in the next comparison game.
Smash,
You are right about 1/2 size empires!
In a previous game a few months ago, I discovered that losing your SSC in the same way is not conducive to early landings either. I had a diplomat and enough cash for bribes, but those barb mounted units were just a little too quick!
I hope you are not too discouraged to give up on these kinds of games since they are fun and don't take much time to finish.
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Grigor
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Oberlin, Ohio
Jan 2000
time: 00:27
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I have played until 200BC and wanted to get in on the Monarcy-Republic debate. I had a number of Barb incursions but still built two wonders by 1150. Had I thought to develop trade earlier I perhaps could have had a better situation. My play from 1100 to 200 BC was full o one-more-turn-itis
Early Landing #3 (Medium Map) Log
BC
4000 It seems clear where the capital should be, but there should be a special on the ocean square 2 steps East. the other settler moves SW.
3950 SSC and Kaupang founded.
3900 * Research BW for the Phalanx row.
3800 BW=>Alph
3750 Kaupang Warrior uncovers whale.
3550 Alph=>CB
3350 SSC size 2 - work silk for faster settlers.
3150 CB=>CoL
3100* Hladir and Uppsala founded on rivers.
2800 CoL=>Mon (we have 6 of60)
2600 Kaupang builds settlers. Barbs appear to NW - SSC is on a river and should be OK.
2450 Mon=>curr. Rev. Gov: Mon. SSC warrior attacks archer. Loses. Archer red.
2400 Archer attacks Settler, loses. Barb Leader escapes. (Wah)
2350 More Barb Archers appear near Kaupang. change orders to Phalanx.
2250 Aarhus (3-whale), Viborg (river) founded.
2150 Curr=>Trade (0 of 91, 7 turns. )
2100*Barb archer dies on Kaupang Phalanx.
2000 most Powerful: 6. Vikings. Uh=Oh.
1950 Trade=>writing (112) Just in time. Switch Settlers to Caravans.
1700* Writ=>Lit. Decision time: Colossus or MPE? I say Col, with MPE to follow in 8 turns (1300)
1650 SSC builds Colossus.
1550 Zulus destroyed by Russians. Barbs to SW.
1450 Lit=>Rep
1250 Persians start LH
1200 SSC builds Temple.
1150 Rep=>Maps. SSC builds MPE. About 3 turns behind schedule.
MPE investigation shows not much from the AI. All I need now is Maps and Myst. Let Russians learn Mas, maybe they will res Constr. Indians look like they will be will be useless this game.
Indians: Peace, get Maps.
Russians: Peace, give Rep for Myst. No maps yet to aid their research
Spanish Peace Maps
Persians, Peace, Maps
Babs" peace, Maps
English are on Indians continent and are researching Math.
More Decisions: Republic in 1100BC? or wait until 950 and build caravans?
1100* Researching Phil. Need Const before Rep matters. Go for 6 Shakes caravans
1050 Indians are doing Banking! English have Math. English: get Math, peace, maps. I don't see how to trade with anybody else before Nav. OK, now I black click and see some islands off Aarhus.
950* English are researching Constr. Phil soon.
925 Engl build LH. Pearsians change to HG
900 Phil, Astro=>Med. Aarhus builds Trireme. New Continent discovered. One Special mined for SSC.
750* SSC builds Cope's. Persians develop Bank. Revolution
725 Gov: Republic.
700 SSC in Celebration. Roskilde founded on Continent near Spanish.
675 Med=>Univ. English still working on Constr. Persians start IW.
650* SSC Hides to Seville (d, 204) This seems like it should have happened 500 years earlier.
625 English finally develop Constr. Univ=>Chem.
600 575 Persians develop IW. Uppsala Gold to SSC (d, 72g. Last SSC Special discovered. Can't pry Constr from English who are working on Pyr, SSC growth halted at 7.
550* Chem=>ToG
450* Pasgardae builds HG. Indians develop Poly.
425 Persians develop Feudalism. That's good news for the future. Construction from Indians. They are researching Seaf.
325 ToG=> Bank. SSC Hides to Seville (d, 220) Barbs land near Aarhus.
300 SSC builds Shake's. Trade for Bank. Can't get Wheel from Russians. Most Advanced: English(!), Vikes, Indians, Babs, Persians, Spanish, Russians.
275 Russians: peace, Wheel.
225 Delhi builds GL. Russians switch to INC...
200 Econ=>Engineering.
Playing too fast. Time to stop. Build INC before Russians. Eng=>Sanitation. SSC should be big soon. We will get Seafaring from AI soon.
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08-04-2003 22:17
Great game and it will be the record for landings with no huts. 
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