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Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:27
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US detains former Intel employee indefinitely, no charges pressed Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

From the NYT:
quote:
PORTLAND, Ore., April 3 — For the last two weeks, Maher Hawash, a 38-year-old software engineer and American citizen who was from the West Bank and grew up in Kuwait, has been held in a federal prison here, though he has not been charged with a crime or brought before a judge.

Relatives and friends of Mr. Hawash, who works for the Intel Corporation and is married to a native Oregonian, say he has no idea why he was arrested by a federal terrorism task force when he arrived for work at the Intel parking lot in Hillsboro, a Portland suburb. The family home was raided at dawn on the same day by nearly a dozen armed police officers, who woke Mrs. Hawash and the family's three children, friends said.

Mr. Hawash, who is known as Mike, has yet to be interrogated and is being kept in solitary confinement, his supporters say.

Federal officials will not comment on Mr. Hawash, though they have been pressed by Senator Ron Wyden, Democrat of Oregon, and by a group of supporters led by a former Intel vice president, for basic information about why he is being detained.

In a statement after his arrest, the F.B.I. said he was being held as a material witness in an "ongoing investigation" by the Joint Terrorism Task Force. Federal search warrants in the case are sealed.

The case has drawn the attention of civil liberties groups nationwide, who say Mr. Hawash's case is an example of how the Bush administration is holding a handful of American citizens without offering them normal legal protection.

Although at least two American citizens are being held without normal legal rights as "enemy combatants," Mr. Hawash has not been categorized as such. As a material witness, he is being held to compel testimony. But supporters say he has not been told anything about what the government may want from him.

"Our friend has fallen into some kind of `Alice in Wonderland' meets Franz Kafka," said Steven McGeady, the former Intel executive, who started a legal defense fund and a Web site for Mr. Hawash.

"You hear about this happening in other countries and to immigrants and then to American citizens," Mr. McGeady went on. "And finally you hear about it happening to someone you know. It's scary."

Mr. Hawash's family thought at first that his arrest was connected to two donations he made three years ago to an Islamic charity, Global Relief Foundation, whose assets were frozen last year when federal authorities said it was linked to terrorism. But now relatives say the contributions may not be related to his arrest, and he may be asked to testify about six people charged here last year with aiding terrorism.

Asked about the charitable donations — which totaled a little more than $10,000 — Mr. Hawash told the local newspaper, The Oregonian, in November: "We believed that they are doing good work. It's a well-known organization."

Civil liberties groups say material witness statutes are being abused by the Bush administration to hold people like Mr. Hawash indefinitely. "The government doesn't have and should not have the power to arrest and detain someone without charging them," said Lucas Guttentag, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Immigrants Rights Project. "If this kind of thing is permitted, then any United States citizen can be swept off the street and locked up without being charged."

Since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, the courts have made conflicting rulings on the legality of holding material witnesses without charging them. A federal judge in Manhattan, Shira A. Scheindlin, said such detentions were "an illegitimate use of the statute," but another ruling in the same court, by Chief Judge Michael B. Mukasey, said detaining witnesses to compel testimony was a legitimate investigative tool.

Attorney General John Ashcroft has defended the tactic, saying it is "vital to preventing, disrupting or delaying new attacks."

The Justice Department has not said how many Americans have been held without charges in terrorism investigations since Sept. 11. Civil liberties groups say they believe the number is about 20, though most are not American citizens.

Mr. Hawash, who was born in Nablus in the West Bank, first came to the United States in 1984, his family said, and graduated from the University of Texas. He became an American citizen in 1988. He is married to Lisa Hawash, a native of Roseburg, Ore. The Web site set up by supporters, freemikehawash.org, founded by two former Intel executives, shows a picture of Mr. Hawash's wife and three children.

Mr. Hawash has worked at Intel since 1992, though he was laid off in 2001 and rehired as a contract employee. Mr. McGeady, his boss there, said Mr. Hawash went back to Nablus to visit his family several years ago and had trouble returning to the United States until Intel officials intervened.


Booooo.
Why is this **** legal?

GePap is offline GePap
King
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Nov 2001
time: 23:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 01:54
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Cause he's Arab.......

{did this come up only cause he works for Intel? what if he worked for Apple? }

Asher is offline Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 01:55 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
{did this come up only cause he works for Intel? what if he worked for Apple? }

Well, if he worked for Apple he'd clearly be a left-wing nutjob, and we know they should all be detained indefinitely.

Skywise is offline Skywise
Prince
Samara's best friend
Jan 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 01:55
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And they wonder why Americans are being booed in Canada.........Not ONLY because of the war, but because of examples like that.

I'm sorry to say but the reason why America is hated world wide these days is mainly the cause of the Bush regime. They do what they want and dont give a frikin shlt about others.

I have pitty for americans, really.

Spec.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 02:02 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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quote:
Why is this **** legal?


It isn't.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 02:10 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Send him to Canada.
He can make donations to militant organizations all he wants, then.

GePap is offline GePap
King
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Nov 2001
time: 23:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 02:15
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And if you notice Sloww, that is not why he is being held.

I know, lets call the FBI and tell them Sloww may have material evidence about terrorism. Then they will hold him indefenitelly, since he certainly would not be able to answer the FBNI's questions to their liking.

Wouldn;t that have been a killer April's Fool joke? To ave sloww imprisoned for months without any charges? A gag worthy of Texas.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
Send him to Canada.
He can make donations to militant organizations all he wants, then.


Is he being charged with "making a donation to a militant organization?"

Is that even a crime? If it is, charge him, give him access to a lawyer, try him and sentence him if convicted.

Is there any evidence he knew it was "a militant organization?"

Maybe we ought to arrest and hold without bail the IRS employees who made a 501(c)(3) determination that it was a legitimate charity, since the IRS clearly helped aid terrorists.

Maybe we should just say, "ah, **** it, who cares if they're just arresting ragheads and holding them without charges. They'd never do that to white people, so it's a-ok"

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
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Sep 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 02:30 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Hell, yes. Lock up the whole IRS too.
No argument here.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 02:32
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
Hell, yes. Lock up the whole IRS too.
No argument here.


We just have to get the rest of the Feds while we're at it.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Sep 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 02:34 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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And we have a Winner!


Willem is offline Willem
Emperor
Canada
Dec 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 02:41
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
Send him to Canada.
He can make donations to militant organizations all he wants, then.


We have the very same illegal organizations here that you do, so piss off.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
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Sep 2001
time: 21:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 03:00
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Most of these panic pieces never pan out. I have a dollar that this is a bit of muck racking and this guy is still with in the legal time period where citizens can be detained for questioning.

Ramo is offline Ramo
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Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 03:03 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Citizens certainly cannot be detained without being charged for two weeks. This is illegal.

quote:
For the last two weeks, Maher Hawash, a 38-year-old software engineer and American citizen who was from the West Bank and grew up in Kuwait, has been held in a federal prison here, though he has not been charged with a crime or brought before a judge.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 03:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
Most of these panic pieces never pan out. I have a dollar that this is a bit of muck racking and this guy is still with in the legal time period where citizens can be detained for questioning.


A person can be detained without charges for a very short period of time, depending on the statute used as a basis for detention.

According to recent rulings on the material witness statute, as used by Ashcroft and buds, indefinite detention without trial, access to attorneys, or contact with family members is now "legal" if it can be claimed to be connected with an ongoing investigation.

Previously, material witness warrants were used when the party's testimony would be needed within a reasonable period of time, and when the party affected was shown to be a flight risk. Material witness warrants have not been traditionally used when there is no date, and no basis for even setting a date, for the "testimony" of the party detained.

Meanwhile, what happens? Does this guy continue drawing a paycheck, or does his mortgage company say "hey, that's cool, don't worry about your bills?" Anyone detained under the Ashcroftian interpretation can be utterly and completely ****ed into the ground, as can their family, without ever being charged with a crime. Hell, who needs those pesky details like defense counsel, judges and juries, or even grand juries, for that matter? Let's just let the Department of "Justice" make whatever decisions it wants unilaterally.

Ja wohl!

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 03:26 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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quote:
According to recent rulings on the material witness statute, as used by Ashcroft and buds, indefinite detention without trial, access to attorneys, or contact with family members is now "legal" if it can be claimed to be connected with an ongoing investigation.


I was under the impression that this only applies to non-citizens?

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 03:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Ramo


I was under the impression that this only applies to non-citizens?


The citizenship distinction has only been made in challenge of unlawful combatant status cases, AFAIK.

The intent of the material witness statute is to compel witnesses to testify, and make sure they don't flee the jurisdiction in which they're supposed to testify.

What is particularly chilling, is that since the MW statute doesn't address the type of crime, only being a witness to one, this expansion of "investigative" powers can be applied to investigation of any Federal crime, not just those related to PATRIOT or terrorism-related offenses.

Jac de Molay is offline Jac de Molay
Prince
Detroit
Sep 2001
time: 05:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 04:03
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So Ironic since the Feds were all over the Detroit cops for doing the same thing when they were detaining murder "witnesses" indefinitely for questioning. Of course, under the "arab exception", there's now a good dozen or so who are being held by the Feds in the same manner.

Somebody wake me from this living nightmare.....

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 11:05
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quote:

Mr. Hawash, who is known as Mike, has yet to be interrogated and is being kept in solitary confinement, his supporters say.


Shades of the Lee Wen Ho case.

Anun Ik Oba is offline Anun Ik Oba
Emperor
Grace of God
Sep 1999
time: 00:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 11:11
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Ahh well.

Lord Merciless is offline Lord Merciless
Warlord
USA
Jul 2002
time: 22:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 11:51
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Could that recently captured dude in Pakistan have something to do with this case?

MRT144 is offline MRT144
Chieftain
Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 11:57
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i like how UR does it the correct way

LoneWolf is offline LoneWolf
Settler

Feb 2001
time: 23:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 12:05
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And we didn't beat him too? Like would happen in Bagdad, for example. Too bad.

NeOmega is offline NeOmega
Prince
Play Pentagenesis Beta!
Feb 2002
time: 21:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 14:45
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It's legal because that is what the majority of Americans want.

It's legal becasue 98% of the Americans have never heard of him, or anyone else being held as a material witness.

It's legal because our Democracy has failed, and became rule of the stupid majority.

Quite frankly it's legal becasue nobody cares, nobody ever will, and Arabs are terrorists anyway.

Ya dig?

Guynemer is offline Guynemer
King

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Mar 1999
time: 00:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 19:39
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quote:
Originally posted by LoneWolf
And we didn't beat him too? Like would happen in Bagdad, for example. Too bad.


Pathetic.

I'm interested into what prompted you to take that handle, if you'd be so kind.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 19:52
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FYI, Global Relief Foundation has not yet been proven to have links to terrorism, at least not on an intentional basis. There's no evidence this guy would have known even if they did, since tens of thousands of Muslims donate to Muslim charities all the time.

This is deplorable and needs to stop. The Bush regime is indeed going too far and is now the one responsible for creating a climate of fear in the U.S.

Willem is offline Willem
Emperor
Canada
Dec 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 20:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
The Bush regime is indeed going too far and is now the one responsible for creating a climate of fear in the U.S.


He has been for quite some time now, you're just beginning to notice I guess. Many of us outside the US have seen this going on for awhile, which is one reason we don't trust him.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 20:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Willem


He has been for quite some time now, you're just beginning to notice I guess. Many of us outside the US have seen this going on for awhile, which is one reason we don't trust him.


I don't think you've been reading my feelings about the Bush regime that I've stated since its falsified conception.

Sava is offline Sava
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GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 21:19
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quote:
Booooo.
Why is this **** legal?

Ask our Texas fuhrer.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 22:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Guynemer


Pathetic.

I'm interested into what prompted you to take that handle, if you'd be so kind.


Isn't it obvious? He's a ruff n tuff lone wolf! Grrrrrrrowl!








 
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