07-04-2003 17:09									#1
	Man-made map or Computer map? Enter the AD-FREE zone

One poll was still missing, but Here It Is (Civ Demo Game pun intended): the choice whether to play on a computer generated map or a man-made map.

In this thread, a plan was launched to form a small committee (of 2 people) that makes a map using the editor. This map will then be used in the Part Deux Demo Game. The people who made the map will not play an active role in the game itself, of course.

Why use a custom map? Well, there are a number of advantages:

• The most obvious advantage is that computer generated maps are always predictable to some degree. You just know that if you vote for pangea, you'll end up on a huge landmass. It almost always extends west-east, and its features are rather 'dull'.
  
  
• The second advantage is that humans can in fact make a map more challenging for the team. Certain geographical features can be added that include riddles and puzzles. I'm not going to elaborate on this one, since it would spoil the fun.
  
  
• Ah yes, the most important advantage: a custom made map will be more fun to play on.
  
  
• Another idea that we have at this moment is to include some of earth's natural features, like mountain ranges, fjords and rivers, to have a "real world" feel to it. In Togas' words: "stunning, natural, and distinct".
  
  
• We will accomodate the people's wishes: for example, a strong accent on naval warfare.
  

	07-04-2003 17:53									#2
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Sure, watch them give us an island surrounded by mountains with no chance of a port...

Vote Man-Made, let them do their worst!

	07-04-2003 18:24									#3
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That would be too easy - those mountains would be too defendable... ;-)

	07-04-2003 20:57									#4
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With a computer generated map, we could start immediately while the interest level is still high. While I don't always love the map generater, it gets us started quick.

How long would we have to wait for a man made-map?

If a man made-map is used, volcanos and fog (or suitable other secrets) could be added for diversity and interest (see CivFanatics GOTM 17).

	07-04-2003 21:34									#5
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I think that our map can be ready within two weeks, or earlier if necessary. What it the tentative start date for the new game? GodKing has suggested April 27. If that date is chosen we could surely have a map ready before then.

--Togas

	07-04-2003 21:50									#6
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Man-made. Bring it on!

	08-04-2003 01:52									#7
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Very well, give us a challenge.

	08-04-2003 03:12									#8
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If they can have a man-made map in short order, then lets go for it!

	08-04-2003 04:59									#9
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Computer map - the computer is probably better at balancing things, plus it doesn't have any even potential biases.

	08-04-2003 08:28									#10
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Thanks for correcting my omission, BFM. Poll is now (obviously) topped.

I'd like a random map simply because it's simple and we can start right away, but I have no issues with a man-made one.

	08-04-2003 15:58									#11
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hi ,

if we are to take a man made map , we should take a world map , .....

with correct starting locations (!)

"Marla's Map" would be intresting , .....

have a nice day

	08-04-2003 16:05									#12
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That would be very predictable, now, wouldn't it ..?

	08-04-2003 16:29									#13
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt I'd like a random map simply because it's simple and we can start right away, but I have no issues with a man-made one.

Yes, let's go for a random map.

	08-04-2003 17:48									#14
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random

	08-04-2003 17:55									#15
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Man-made. A natural-looking, well-balanced world sounds more fun than a randomly generated world.

	08-04-2003 19:48									#16
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Man Made.

	08-04-2003 23:04									#17
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have we deicded who will make the map?

	09-04-2003 00:07									#18
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BFM and I are jointly working on a World Map that is natural, balanced, unusual, and also includes a few puzzles and surprises. We can have it ready within a week if needed, and we welcome any requests for features that you might like to see.

We will be using the results of the polls and try to make the map along those guidelines.

We have many good ideas that we've planned for this map and are coming up with new ideas on a daily basis. We're very excited about this project and hope that Apolyton chooses to use our map.

--Togas

	09-04-2003 00:50									#19
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man-made

	09-04-2003 20:12									#20
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hi ,

if we use man made , how far do we go , where do we draw the line , .......

have a nice day

	09-04-2003 21:41									#21
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If we use a man made map, won't we have an unfair advantage exploring?

	09-04-2003 22:50									#22
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn If we use a man made map, won't we have an unfair advantage exploring?

Ahem, first post.

quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster The people who made the map will not play an active role in the game itself, of course.

	10-04-2003 01:17									#23
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hi ,

we could ask someone who is not going to play to make a map for us , ....

or we could ask someone from an other site , ......

this way we dont know a thing about it , ....

but what do we want on our man made map , .....

and how long will it take to create it , .....

maybe its better to let the comp generate one , or a couple and take the best from it , then add or remove what we like , ...

have a nice day

	10-04-2003 02:09									#24
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quote: Originally posted by panag we could ask someone who is not going to play to make a map for us , ....

We are. Togas and I are working on a map right now, and it's coming along very nicely. But... we won't tell you a thing in advance, we promise. We'll not be an active part of the game.

quote: Originally posted by panag and how long will it take to create it , .....

One day? One week? You'll have your map before the game starts, I promise.

quote: Originally posted by panag maybe its better to let the comp generate one , or a couple and take the best from it , then add or remove what we like , ...

Actually, that's exactly the way we started the project... :-)

	10-04-2003 02:30									#25
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster We are. Togas and I are working on a map right now, and it's coming along very nicely. But... we won't tell you a thing in advance, we promise. We'll not be an active part of the game. One day? One week? You'll have your map before the game starts, I promise. Actually, that's exactly the way we started the project... :-)

hi ,

ya know something BFM , its a shame you are not going to play with us , ........

huh , what size ?

could you post a screenshot of a starting point

have a nice day

	10-04-2003 02:50									#26
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Some notes from the Mapmakers:

We generated several maps with the conditions voted upon by the team as our guidelines, then sketched out a major revision of that map based on ideas that BFM & I each had. The map has Vikings and sea adventures at the heart and while we hope the team will end up with Vikings, it can still be enjoyed by any civ selected. This will be a map that you will enjoy exploring and hopefully surprise you on several occasions.

We are currently setting it up for 16 civs. We'll do more or less if needed, just let us know.

Design wise, I'd say we're 1/3 of the way done. We could have it ready as soon as this Sunday, if you wanted it by then.

BFM and I will stay involved in the Demo game to some degree, of course. We won't run for office or anything, but we will definately want to see how things play out on this map and what you discover and what you think of it.

--Togas

	10-04-2003 06:24									#27
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Togas: You could be on the Court, if we have one.

	10-04-2003 06:27									#28
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Man-made. A human editor is much more creative and can add elements to the map that a computer can't.

	10-04-2003 06:55									#29
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I want a computer-generated map.

It will let us get started quickly, and the computer holds no biases against anyone. A computer map would be well balanced.

	10-04-2003 21:09									#30
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Sounds like Togas and BFM are going to get us a good one....