09-04-2003 04:21									#1
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I find it amazing the things people say about Asylum seekers in this country.

I was in a Taxi and the Taxi driver was going on a Xenophobic rants, saying about how rich they are and how they're treated too well.

It got me to wondering - how do people get this information, without actually encountering it for themselves?

We've had some stay at our b&b before (mainly from Iran) and they were poverty-stricken, with barely enough to feed their children. Hardly walking around with the latest mobile phones.

It's a shame it has become such a 'dirty' phrase as well - people seem to have forgotten that the definition of aslyum seeker is someone who is fleeing for their lives. Would someone going on a rant against letting them stay in this country actually go to a family and tell them to go back to a country where they would be killed?

What do you think?

(C'mon, this makes a slight change from all the war stuff )

	09-04-2003 04:26									#2
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"Bring us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..." does not resonate in the English mind, eh?

	09-04-2003 04:28									#3
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I'm English

	09-04-2003 04:37									#4
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Uh, yes, I knew that. The phrase is inscribed on the Statue of Liberty - I do apologize for assuming that you recognized it.

	09-04-2003 04:38									#5
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" Hardly walking around with the latest mobile phones."


Poor babies.

	09-04-2003 04:39									#6
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Yes I do - but you said it doesn't resonate in the English mind - being English myself this would include me...

There are people who are pro-asylum. But there are too many tabloids driving stupid people into a rabid frenzy of xenophobia. Aslyum seekrs do seem to have a really bad press over here at the moment and it is a shame, especially since minority rights in other areas seem to be improving.

	09-04-2003 04:41									#7
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand " Hardly walking around with the latest mobile phones." Poor babies.

I meant to say, the taxi driver said they go round with the latest mobile phones.

They barely had enough to feed their children, which was apalling.

	09-04-2003 04:45									#8
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Yes, that is appalling. That I can accept as grim.

	09-04-2003 04:46									#9
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How about I amend that to "the average English mind"? Being above average yourself, I'm sure you'll agree.

	09-04-2003 04:47									#10
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, ok. I'm very abnormal

	09-04-2003 04:47									#11
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ah in depth conversations with taxi drivers when you're pissed, bloody brilliant.

i don't think anyone (outside perhaps the BNP) has a problem with genuine asylum seekers, it's the ones who come over here and abuse the system that people complain about. and their seems to be an ever increasing amount of those, people who, for example get caught by immigration, sometimes having been in britain illegally for months, and only then claim asylum.

	09-04-2003 04:52									#12
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bloody brilliant

Much better than in-depth conversations with taxi drivers when they're pissed.

Re asylum, this doesn't seem to be an issue over here. Maybe because it's so easy to be an illegal immigrant--no incentive to claim assylum.

	09-04-2003 04:58									#13
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quote: The phrase is inscribed on the Statue of Liberty

Not anymore. Ashcroft et al. have just finished scratching that inscription out.

	09-04-2003 05:11									#14
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Asylum seekers here get more money from gov than I do. Even the f**king kids. I'm all for letting people in danger in, but some are swimming in our tax money and not doing anything, and some of them aren't.. And some even have the nerves to complain about it, not having the latest Nokia cellphone.. makes me want to kill someone right there. But sure, if someone is in danger, get over here. But don't be butthole about it, appreciation is more welcome than 'show me the money', if you're NOT even working.

	09-04-2003 05:19									#15
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quote: Re asylum, this doesn't seem to be an issue over here. Maybe because it's so easy to be an illegal immigrant--no incentive to claim assylum.

That's because asylum seekers are some of the most persecuted people by our gov't in the US. There aren't many people willing to go through the **** asylum seekers have to go through - arbitrary detention, few judicial restraints and appeals, etc. Just recently, a new policy was enacted where asylum seeker from a list of 30 counttries would have to be detained for their entire application process (which can take months to years).

	09-04-2003 07:33									#16
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seems like illegal immigrants get the same benefits asylum seekers do in europe....

i just love people who argue that illegal immigrants are taking american jobs. most of the jobs they get aren't even wanted by anyone else, we need to get cheap labor from somewhere

	09-04-2003 15:07									#17
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quote: Originally posted by C0ckney i don't think anyone (outside perhaps the BNP) has a problem with genuine asylum seekers, it's the ones who come over here and abuse the system that people complain about. and their seems to be an ever increasing amount of those, people who, for example get caught by immigration, sometimes having been in britain illegally for months, and only then claim asylum.

They are all tarred with the same brush. The average person doesn't discriminate and lumps all asylum seekers into one "evil, smelly, untrustworthy" pidgeonhole.

The biggest waste of the system I perceive is that they don't pay taxes and are not being productive to the country. If we allowed these people to work legally while their claim is being reviewed they have money to spend rather than government paying for living costs. If they pay taxes too then even the Daily Mail can't complain.

	09-04-2003 15:54									#18
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dp

	09-04-2003 15:58									#19
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quote: If we allowed these people to work legally while their claim is being reviewed they have money to spend rather than government paying for living costs.

Don't you think that would just increase the number of phony asylum seekers? I mean, wages are far higher in eg. Britain than in eg. Albania... And processing their applications isn't exactly free. Not to mention health care, welfare, police and stuff like that..

	09-04-2003 16:56									#20
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I doubt it would increase that much. If they are coming here for jobs they will do it whether they can earn legally or illegally. I'd rather they do it legally and be documented.

	09-04-2003 17:25									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch The biggest waste of the system I perceive is that they don't pay taxes and are not being productive to the country. If we allowed these people to work legally while their claim is being reviewed they have money to spend rather than government paying for living costs. If they pay taxes too then even the Daily Mail can't complain.

if we could get a system in place which removes those whose claims are 'manifestly unfounded' very quickly, without the years and years of fannying about, which takes place presently, and actually remove those whose claims are rejected (instead of letting them 'disappear'), then this would be a great idea. the problem is letting people work while they're claims about being processed allows those who have no business being here to put down roots, which makes it all the more difficult to get rid of them in the end.

	09-04-2003 17:46									#22
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Xenophobic people seems to be repeating the same urban myths over and over again. Often they hold little if any truth or lacks empirical support.

For example around here (in Sweden that is) I've heard quite a few times about what kind of cars refugee immigrant drives (expensive). I've also read in Malcom X's biography that he often heard a white family he lived with after he had been taken from his mother talkabout all those fancy cars that black people had. This was before WW2 and on the other side of the globe. Xenophobism is a global movement I guess.

Last edited by Kropotkin on 10-04-2003 at 19:17

	10-04-2003 19:00									#23
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The whole argument that they are rich is so ridiculous.

And the Labour government keeps tightening to laws on asylum seekers, yet people still aren't happy.

	10-04-2003 19:07									#24
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yes the government keeps tightening the laws and the courts do their level best to untighten them again! so nothing changes and the problems don't get solved.

	10-04-2003 19:18									#25
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I wasn't aware asylum seekrs costed that much...

	10-04-2003 19:25									#26
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well they're not exactly free. i'm sure a lot of the money currently spent within the current chaotic system could be spent much better elsewhere.

	10-04-2003 19:27									#27
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COmpared to how much our country has, aslyum seekrs are barely anything. More money is wasted elsewhere.

	10-04-2003 19:29									#28
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What asylum seekers in particular and immigrants in general actually costs a society depends on a number of often ambiguous factors. That a asylum seeker actually costs during their time as asylum seekers doesn't necessarily mean that they will impose a cost in a longer perspective. To refuse refugees on the sole argument that they cost money as asylum seekers is about as smart as to start deporting school pupils. And besides the purely economic factors there's other factors to take into consideration as you might understand.

	10-04-2003 19:41									#29
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rj, i agree, but that is hardly a reason to do nothing when the system is clearly in a mess. it would take a lot less time and effort to reform the asylum system than for example the NHS.

kropotkin, no one is talking about refusing refugees in the first place. genuine refugees are always allowed to stay. what we are talking about when we talk about refusal are those who are not refugees, and dealing with them costs a lot of money and is done in a very poor and inefficent way, which a lot of people in this country (myself included) want changed.

	10-04-2003 19:44									#30
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Cockney - a lot of people are against refusing all asylum seekers.

And Kropt is right - we have a declining population - aren't we going to be needing these people in a few years?