09-04-2003 23:20									#31
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there it is
http://lnweb18.worldbank.org/sar/sa...14?OpenDocument

US 38 mil
UK 15 mil (out of 150(!) promised for the next 5 years)
Saudi Arabia 10mil
Norway 6.8mil
Netherlands 33mil
Kuwait 5mil
Italy 17mil
Japan 5mil
Germany 10mil
Finland 2.7mil
European Commission 15mil
Denmark 5mil
Canada (around) 25mil

	09-04-2003 23:24									#32
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US: 38 out of 188, 20%

thinking that the terrorist threat(that we tried to eliminate in afganistan) was "slightly" over 20% on the US, i'd say it was a good deal

	10-04-2003 16:35									#33
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no responses after the data?

	10-04-2003 18:41									#34
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc A good question you could ask at this point is, "Where is the money from the rest of the international community?" Reconstructing Afghanistan was never meant to be a US only affair.

if the US wants to bring down regimes using the majority of US forces, they should fit the majority of the bill. you break it you buy it.

	10-04-2003 18:55									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Tuomerehu If so, I don't get it. Yes, I have read the book, a translated Finnish version.

If youi've read 1984 and still don't get the redference, you really didn't understand the book...

	10-04-2003 19:05									#36
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the redference?

	10-04-2003 19:22									#37
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Yes. I'm so important my name has to exist in everedthing.

	10-04-2003 19:24									#38
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youre too much, even for me

	10-04-2003 19:42									#39
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quote: If he'd have got OBL locked up and on trial, Iraq would probally never have happened. Thats what sticks in my throat when we hear this self-righteous BS about 'freeing the people of Iraq.'

I think if 9/11 never happened, we'd still be fighting this war. Bush and cabal had a hard-on for this since the administration took office.

You're right, though. It's not about freedom at all, but power. And we now have another 5 years or so of US imposed martial law to look forward to, just like in Afghanistan.

	10-04-2003 21:24									#40
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All of Europe gave 116mil. Netherlands alone put the US to shame.

Somebody should contribute to the website, it sucks.

	12-04-2003 17:53									#41
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Ah, how I miss the pro-war camp's contributions to this thread.

	12-04-2003 18:18									#42
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Not that it surprises me, but I was wondering if I could get a source on that 42% poll. I could swear someone touted that 'poll' here before and failed to provide a source...

	12-04-2003 18:34									#43
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quote: Netherlands alone put the US to shame.

You know, we aren't proud of that fact. It's just too easy...

	12-04-2003 21:17									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Darius871 Not that it surprises me, but I was wondering if I could get a source on that 42% poll. I could swear someone touted that 'poll' here before and failed to provide a source...

Just go ask all those people who go to Ground Zero to hold pro-war ralies saying how the war in Iraq actually begun there, cause "they hit us first". I am sure they will tell you that they are doing it for rhetorical reasons, and are well aware that as of this moment, no links betwen the Saddam regime and 9/11 were found. I also loved this one piece on PBS' The News Hour when they had a segement prewar about the string of municipalities passing statements against the war. They focused on this small Oegon twon, and during the discussion the president of the City Council, who opposed the anti-war resolution, stated that "it had been found that many of the hijackers came from Iraq"

	13-04-2003 08:26									#45
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Strangely, the pro-war camp seems determined to let this thread sink.

	13-04-2003 10:40									#46
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Why is Afghan reconstruction a US problem and Iraq reconstruction a UN problem?

	13-04-2003 11:02									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Strangely, the pro-war camp seems determined to let this thread sink.

Say, pro-democracy or I will say "appeasers."

	13-04-2003 11:08									#48
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I just took a look at the list of donors. Noticeably absent is that blowhard country west of Germany, and north of Spain that is always lecturing other countries on morals and proper behavior and that insists reconstruction of countries is a UN problem.

	13-04-2003 11:24									#49
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France could very well make up a large part of the European Commission contribution. I was wondering why some European countries were counted twice.

Afghan recontruction is a US problem because it was an entirely US initiative which was quickly fobbed off on the UN with a miniscule contribution. Certainly the US couldn't invest any effort in building a lasting democracy in Afghanistan when it was in such a hurry to liberate Iraq.

	13-04-2003 11:39									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Why is Afghan reconstruction a US problem and Iraq reconstruction a UN problem?

Your right, they are both problems of the UN.

But that's not even an excuse for the US very poor performance in the reconstruction of Afghanistan.

If the NETHERLANDS can donate 33 mil, and we can spend 80 mil on Iraq....We can spend more rebuilding afghanistan.

If 10 schoolkids have an assignement to create a model of the Earth, and 9 of them dont do it, it is NO excuse for the 10th to not do it and say "They didn't do it either.....". The teacher will simply assign an F

	13-04-2003 14:31									#51
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quote: Why is Afghan reconstruction a US problem and Iraq reconstruction a UN problem?

cause we were after OBL who had attacked the US?

	13-04-2003 14:45									#52
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'we', Marcos?

	13-04-2003 15:55									#53
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Greece supports the US war on terror
after the events of 9/11 a former prime minister (who has learned over the years when to open his mouth and when not) stated: "We're all Americans"

	13-04-2003 15:57									#54
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quote: MarkG: "We're all Americans"

quote: Laz: "We're all HIV+"

	13-04-2003 18:36									#55
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quote: If the NETHERLANDS can donate 33 mil, and we can spend 80 mil on Iraq....We can spend more rebuilding afghanistan.

I believe thats 80 Billion dollars. With a 'B'.

	13-04-2003 19:40									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I just took a look at the list of donors. Noticeably absent is that blowhard country west of Germany, and north of Spain that is always lecturing other countries on morals and proper behavior and that insists reconstruction of countries is a UN problem.

I was surprised as well, and I went to the French Foreign Ministry site to see what they had to tell about this. According to the article on Afghan reconstruction, France has promised 15,608,000 € on two years in bilateral reconstruction help. It is a miserable sum compared to the needs of a country such as Afghanistan, and it is ridiculed by the efforts of NL, but at least we take some part.
I wonder what method Markos' data uses, for them to consider France a no-donor.

	13-04-2003 23:21									#57
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perhaps they are not going through the world bank?

	14-04-2003 01:48									#58
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Well, I for one would totally agree that the reconstruction of Afghanistan is a UN problem. The problem was not caused by the US alone, but by warfare in that country for 22 straight years. Much of the warfare was supported or incented from abroad. The victims of he warfare, though, are the people of Afghanistan. Afghanistan should be the prototype UN resonstruction effort.

	14-04-2003 05:10									#59
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Just saying the reconstruction is a UN problem doesn't exonerate US involvement, afterall we are a significant member of the UN and the richest member.

	14-04-2003 10:33									#60
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gsmoove, no doubt this is true. But, if the UN took responsibility there and managed it, we could focus more on the war on terror. I don't know to what extent we have to pay off the poppy growers to keep them in the war on our side. But if the UN were in charge, they could take care of the drug problem without getting us entangled.

We could play good cop, bad cop, with the UN taking the bad cop roll.