12-04-2003 05:56									#1
	Civ Powergraph (Trends) Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Well I was bored, so I took all the scores from the screen shots vondrack posted (from Turn 10 onward) and put the scores into a table in excel.

Basically, we end up getting something like Civ 2's powergraph (which I like a lot better then Civ 3's model). From this, we can spot some interesting trends. Notice slope changes on specific teams.

While this information is readily accesible, it seems like putting it into a graph form makes it much more "readable"



Also, a new graph that shows the difference in scores slightly more apparently and is another way to view trends is this Point Spread graph. Our score is the X-Axis basically, and the other lines show many point separate us from the other teams. The last two turns, you'll notice that most of the other teams graphs went down, meaning we are closing the gap

Last edited by WhiteBandit on 27-04-2003 at 04:48

	12-04-2003 16:58									#2
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I think someone else did this exercise already.

Not that I want to discourage you - on the contrary, it's a very good thing to have - and your graph looks nicer, too.

The other person had two graphs: one for the average scores (like you have) and one for the real-time score (you should find this in the screenshots, I think). Both graphs give quite a bit of information, actually.

	12-04-2003 20:49									#3
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Is there a way to make the lines on the graph a little thicker? And maybe increase the vertical spread, stretch it out a bit. Otherwise it looks fine to me; pretty colors and all.

	12-04-2003 21:09									#4
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I would also recommend a graph that displays not the power of each civ, but the derivative of their power function. That way you can see growth, and see who is growing and who could soon be slacking behind.

	13-04-2003 00:20									#5
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree Is there a way to make the lines on the graph a little thicker? And maybe increase the vertical spread, stretch it out a bit. Otherwise it looks fine to me; pretty colors and all.

BigFree, there is a way, I'll go ahead and work on that for version 2

quote: Originally posted by Shiber I would also recommend a graph that displays not the power of each civ, but the derivative of their power function. That way you can see growth, and see who is growing and who could soon be slacking behind.

Shiber, excellent idea! I'm going to try to dig up some stuff on how to compute functions/ f'(x) from a graph in Excel. I suppose I could post the spreadsheet somewhere for people who know more about excel than I do.

	13-04-2003 01:36									#6
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Great work WB. It's very informative.
It looks like the civs are split in 2 groups, why can this be? We can't assume that the 3 in the top all got a free settler from a hut can we?

	13-04-2003 02:30									#7
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Alright, I made the lines thicker and increased the verticle spread slightly. I uploaded the file over the old filename, so you may have to clean your cache or something if you don't see it. (You properly see this version is the team names are inside the graph. If the team names are to the right of the graph, then it is the previous version).

Regarding derivatives, I found that I can set trend lines to each team that plots a polynomial that roughly follows the line (Up to a power of x^6 I believe). Then I went to derive those and got negative slopes and all kinds of horrid stuff. So I'll try to keep playing with that and clean it up.

	13-04-2003 04:52									#8
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Looks great WB!

	13-04-2003 05:09									#9
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Alright, it now should display at the top as Version 2.37
Version 2 being the second revision, 37 being the turn number

The only change in this one is adding a line showing the average scores for all civs at the request of Trip. From this, you can see that we are currently below average

For those who want to play around with the XLS file in Excel, this is in Excel 2000 format:

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Wh...ergraphv237.zip

	13-04-2003 05:14									#10
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Actually, I see what BFM is saying. LOL. I just came across Oliver's post in his Intelligence Analysis Thread. DOH!

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=78202

	14-04-2003 00:16									#11
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hi ,

, looks like we are slipping away , ....

have a nice day

	14-04-2003 12:03									#12
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Updated graph to version 2.38 to reflect scores of current turn. (38!)

	15-04-2003 01:30									#13
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quote: Originally posted by WhiteBandit Updated graph to version 2.38 to reflect scores of current turn. (38!)

hi ,

it still looks sad

have a nice day

	15-04-2003 02:03									#14
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Why did we level off?

	15-04-2003 02:08									#15
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Perhaps you can also include a simple chart of who increased by how much each turn. For example, this turn...

code:
Gamecatcher	+1
Firaxis		+0
CDG		+2
Netatolians	+1
Apolyton	+0
CFC		+1
Webringians	+2
Grenouilles	+1

	15-04-2003 04:12									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Perhaps you can also include a simple chart of who increased by how much each turn. For example, this turn... code: Gamecatcher +1 Firaxis +0 CDG +2 Netatolians +1 Apolyton +0 CFC +1 Webringians +2 Grenouilles +1

hi ,


, the more one looks at this , the more some people get the feeling(s) that some teams are working together , .....

well , even worser situations have been turned around


have a nice day



panag offers banana to the great statue in the temple ( just in case )

	15-04-2003 09:43									#17
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Nice work WB , keep on updating this as it will be good to have at hand.

Look at the bright side, Firaxis sucks

	15-04-2003 10:59									#18
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Our score may work well for us. We could adopt an "under the radar" approach for much of the game, making sure we don't look spactacular, then when the time comes, bring our nation to its full strength. We obviously have the best team out of anyone in the ISDG, and we can easily manage to win if we have enough time to prepare. As long as we're right above "sucky Firaxis" teams will laugh at us, just like Provost Harrison from CGN. If we can maintain the facade that we're "below average," we'll avoid making ourselves a target. After all, no matter how good our team is, if we don't perform the other teams will care less about us.

And when the time is ripe...

	15-04-2003 13:55									#19
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quote: Look at the bright side, Firaxis sucks

quote: Our score may work well for us. We could adopt an "under the radar" approach for much of the game, making sure we don't look spactacular

See what Firaxis is doing...?

	15-04-2003 14:34									#20
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WB: one small petition, would it be possible to change the Average Score line into a dotted line (perhaps white, a little less thick)?

The color got me confused with CFC first and then I thought it was another team, I don't know if anyone had this problem.

	16-04-2003 20:11									#21
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Firaxis score just shows that those who can't play computer games nor teach others how to play computer games, designs computer games.

	17-04-2003 01:18									#22
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Firaxis score just shows that those who can't play computer games nor teach others how to play computer games, designs computer games.

hi ,

actually they are more occupied with fixing problems with the game as they play with us then to play the game itself , .....

have a nice day

	17-04-2003 02:07									#23
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well that's just too darn bad cause if they actually HAD played the game they'd realize what a buggy mess it was.

	17-04-2003 02:13									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen well that's just too darn bad cause if they actually HAD played the game they'd realize what a buggy mess it was.

hi ,

well thats what they did realize , thats why there shall be a patch , ....

have a nice day

	17-04-2003 02:18									#25
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well that's just too darn bad cause if they actually HAD played the game they'd realize what a buggy mess it was.

	18-04-2003 03:46									#26
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I wouldn't underestimate Firaxis. I bet they're pretty good; they did MAKE the game. The only reason I don't fear their skill is that they can't be putting nearly as much time into this as the other teams.

As for their score: As BFM pointed out, how can we say they're any worse off than us with our granary?

	18-04-2003 05:20									#27
	v.3.39 Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Version 3, reflecting changes requested by MasterZen to make the average score slightly more distinguishable. It is the thin white line.

Updated for turn 39.

	21-04-2003 17:06									#28
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WB, your problems with derivatives can be solved by using differences, as Trip already pointed out. However, it doesn't show that much, unless you also annotate the data with all the events that had an effect on our score (pop increase, territory increase, lux connection).

At any rate, it is a lot better to use the immediate scores as the average scores, average says nothing except of a general feel of how one is doing in game.. immediate score can make you compute all the pop, cities, and territory of all the teams in game.

DeepO

	27-04-2003 04:50									#29
	Uploaded, v.3.43 Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

You should see a new graph reflecting the last few turns since turn 39. We are currently at turn 43.

Also added a new graph to show differences between scores. Thanks to Trip for the suggestion.

DeepO - I meant ask a question awhile ago, but Poly was down. How would I compute the immediate scores? Is that by going to the F8 score screen?

I guess the scores I am reading off of (the player list in the main game window) is the average scores then right?

	27-04-2003 05:37									#30
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster See what Firaxis is doing...?

Probibly playing like an AI...

E_T