16-04-2003 19:59									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae BRC: nice to see you around again (...did you ever leave? )!

Never left, but RL is kicking my a--.

I've bopped a few settlers that India and Korea have sent to my continent, in order to keep them away from my borders and resources. I always declared war fairly, but how will these minor wars affect the later game. Should I have just let them settle? I know eventually I'll have to. I just don't have any experience with this.

	16-04-2003 21:54									#92
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Wow Dom that was very....thorough. I actually enjoyed reading it. A very well played game in my opinion. I actually learned some from just reading it.

BigD

	16-04-2003 22:46									#93
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Hi everybody...

Well I decided to see if I could pull of a conquest victory. I played on the oh so difficult chieftain level(I know, lame). I probably should have given it a try on warlord(one level down for me) but didn't know any better. Chieftain may have made it a little too easy. But we'll see.

I decided to play the mighty Germans for this go at 302. I figured that their traits would be good. Militaristic for obvious reasons and I wanted to go with scientific to attempt to keep up in the tech race. But more importantly I figured I'd probaby be endind it with a massive wave of panzers.

I started by building Dorksbach one tile to the SE on the hill. I went straight for lit to get the GL. After that I went for map making so that I could start to produce my armada of galleys.(ooh, scary huh) I got a lot luckier with the huts on the continent. I managed to get several techs and once again, a settler. Why can't I ever get a settler when I'm not playing OCC?

Once I had a couple galleys I filled them up and delivered four swordsmen on the Koreans doorstep. My first target, their capitol. After that I cut off their new capitol from the rest of the Korean cities and proceeded to take out a couple of cities.

Next I landed another two swordsmen on the continent and picked up the slaves. Then I proceeded to march on down to pay Ghandi a call. My first target, their capitol. My goal is to hurt the civs as much as possible. I focused on the bigger cities and luxuries when possible.

After hurting India some twenty turns was up and I went back up and did some more damage to the Koreans. By now I had gotten contact with the other continent and was sewing some discord over there. The Celts decided to declare war on me and so I had Rome and England hop in. I also sent on over two galleys with swordsmen and took out their capitol and a couple of other cities as well before going for peace.

Back on the India/Korea continent things were pretty much wrapping up. After I hit Korea for a second time reducing them to three cities I got a leader and rushed Sun Tzu I think. By now I'd gotten the GL, GL, Copernicus, Sun Tzu and am about to get Leo's.

My medieval infantry finished off the Indians on the third go. I was kinda ticked off when they respawned on the other side of the continent. But I just marched up there and took care of them. Then it was time to hit the Koreans for the last time. I hate respawning when I'm trying to go for conquest and have to use med. infantry to do the dirty work. It takes forever to cross the continent.

Back on the home continent all the slaves I've gotten are proving useful. I've pretty much completed building outposts over the whole continent. Dang barbarians were starting to get annoying. I've also built colonies on the spice(or whatever) up in the NE.

That's about where I had to stop though. Musketmen are starting to show up and it's getting hard for my med. infantry to do any damage. I tried to hurt the Celts some more but it didn't work. So now I'm gonna wait for cavalry and try to cut back the AI as much as possible. I've managed to keep them at war almost the whole time. I've been the tech leader through all of this more so probably because I'm playing on chieftain than anything else. I should have gone for warlord, oh well. I'm not trading with anyone right now because none of them have harbors that connect to their capitols. I guess too much warfare and whatnot. Oh well, as long as I get my horses and saltpeter.

I think I'm gonna go back and finish my first go at 302 as the Ottomans before I play this one any more. That's almost over and I hate leaving something I started half done. I'll let you all know how bad I lose that one this weekend.

BigD

	16-04-2003 22:49									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Mountain Sage 1. Played at Goat Herder level instead of Emperor, 2. Re-set the game, 3. Cheated outright, 4. Gone for a Diplomatic victory 4. Told you I won at Deity with a 15-tech advance but forgot to save any game. 5. have shot the AI first 6. 'censured' But no, I lost my Space Race for 1 %#$##@^& turn. And this to those #@@$##%% Celts!!! You know what really galls me? One of my (distant) ancestrors kicked the Celt's a@# a long time ago, and now they come back to haunt, taunt and #$#@@ me again. OK, it's a game, but still #$%%^%$#

Funniest AAR I've read in a while!!! I especially liked #4.

BigD

	16-04-2003 22:53									#95
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I have a question -- there's no advantage to building Sun Tzu's in OOC, is there? I mean, beside saving 1 gold per turn on Barracks maintenance, that is?

	16-04-2003 23:51									#96
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Ubergeek,

No not really but there really wasn't anything else to build. Also it denies the other civs of it and it does save me 1 gold per turn. That's another unit.

BigD

	17-04-2003 00:30									#97
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Dork (or is it Big? ),

Yeah, those are two excellent reasons to build it. One unit takes on magnified importance in OOC. In the sort of game I usually play (huge maps), one unit is nothing. This OOC thing is very different...

	17-04-2003 00:45									#98
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Ubergeek...

BigD works just fine. I forget who, but someone called me that and I've used it ever since.

I tend to stay away from the huge maps. AU207 was my first and probably last unless there's another huge AU game. I was using large maps before I started participating in AU games but now it's pretty much strictly standard.

Right now that one unit actually isn't that big of a deal but later on when I have to take on all three of the other nations it will definatly make a difference. By then they'll be able to produce many times the number of units I will and so I have to stay ahead of the game or I'm gonna be in trouble. I honestly don't think I can pull it off, even on chieftain but I'm gonna try.

BigD

	17-04-2003 01:15									#99
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BigD,

Best of luck on annihilating all life on the planet and let us know how it turns out. It sounds like quite a challenge, especially without Battlefield Medicine!

	17-04-2003 01:47									#100
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Especially without much of anything. I need to be careful who I obliterate and when. I have to trade to get all the resources I need. Even if I make colonies on the other continent I can't send them back unless there's a harbor. Which could make replacing units I lose in battle tricky.

Okay, just a thought. If I build a settler and then abandon my city and then build a new city on the other continent is that cheating???

BigD

	17-04-2003 02:05									#101
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In 1906 AD, I won.

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	17-04-2003 02:11									#102
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Way to go Nor Me That's a lot of MI you've got there

BigD

	17-04-2003 02:16									#103
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This was my first Space Race victory as well as my first attempt at Emperor-level OCC.

After the ancient age, this was somewhat easier than I had expected. I was worried about a cultural victory so had to sell and rebuild my improvements to lose the 1000 year bonus. I also had to stop taking unnecessary gold off AI civs so they could do some of the research I needed.

As you can see I was 9 turns off a cultural victory anyway and the AI were nowhere near a space race victory. This and the late date (1904 is a pesonal record for Emperor with all conditions on.) were largely a result of frequent intracontinental wars that didn't really get anywhere:

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	17-04-2003 02:17									#104
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1766: 2 Civs are building universal suffrage; I'm still in the middle ages. Pretty much my only hope now is a cultural victory.
1788: I enter the industrial era. I hope to get medicine + sanitation first, so I can grow and trade for other techs.
1832: Start Iron Works. Medicine in 13 turns; no one has got it yet!
1858: Get medicine; but other civs seem to have it now... trying the same thing with sanitation.
1886: others have sanitation; I've decided to cut all research because I'm not getting anywhere.
1872: Finally, I can trade my luxuries. Its a bonus, but I don't think it will help too much at this stage of the game. 70 Turns until cultural victory.
1884: Korea declares war on Indians. I hope they don't get destroyed...
1900: England and India signed a military alliance against Korea. This is good - It helps India .
1953: Not much has happened... I'm way behind in techs now. I'm only about 30 turns from a cultural victory though.
1982: CULTURAL VICTORY!!! I'm going to play again, and this time, I'm going to make a coastal city . Time spent: 6h, 16m, 34s

	17-04-2003 02:22									#105
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quote: Originally posted by BigDork Way to go Nor Me That's a lot of MI you've got there BigD

Not as many as you'll need. I know having more than the Koreans who seem to have held off the Indians OK in several wars is maybe a little paranoid. I had spare production and gold so what else was I going to do?

	17-04-2003 02:22									#106
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Nor Me...

I see the Celts were killed off in your game too. I think I'm beginning to see a pattern here. It seems to me that the military/religous civs never get anywhere. I cannot think of a game ever when a mil/rel civ was in the lead tech wise more than anything. Usually they end up backwards and beaten. But that's just a personal observation.

BigD

	17-04-2003 02:24									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Nor Me Not as many as you'll need. I know having more than the Koreans who seem to have held off the Indians OK in several wars is maybe a little paranoid. I had spare production and gold so what else was I going to do?

Eh, have fun with the spies. Destroy production. Steal stuff. Plant a nuclear device(Sometimes I wish).

BigD

	17-04-2003 04:40									#108
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Okay I give up!! OCC is starting to annoy me.

I've tried 4 times:

Persians and moving one tile to the west.
I've gotten the Pyramids, Oracle and GL everytime.
But in the middle of the Middle ages I lose the tech race.

The Koreas and Indians refuse to trade early on when I have money to spend. They just trade between themselves.
Then when I get the Tech lead and have Techs to offer, The AI's have no money. Oh I can keep playing along and have everyone
polite towards me, but by the end of Industrial I'm 6 to 8 Techs behind. GAME OVER.

What bugs me is that in these threads I'm reading about people playing Emperor and getting tons and tons of money from the AI's
Do I have a different version of AU302???? I don't get it.

The only thing I see different is that these people move and start on the coast. Is this really the secret???

Well I'll try it and see how it goes. But this is definitely the last time. I miss beating up on pompous Civs

Thanks for listening

	17-04-2003 05:07									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Wizard55 The only thing I see different is that these people move and start on the coast. Is this really the secret???

The Colossus really helps. The other science wonders are also very useful. You should be in a position to get Copernicus' sby Researching/buying Astronomy straight after the GL runs out.

Contacting the other continent early using the Great Lighthouse or suicide galleys is critical too. When I met them, they were ahead in tech. It's useful to have contact a long time before the Indians and Koreans do.

So my three early wonders were the Colossus, the Great Lighthouse and the Great Library. They're obviously going to give me less culture than yours but tech was my aim. Getting the all the Medieval happiness wonders would still give you an easy cultural victory.

I try and research different techs to the AI. Decisions like my Construction beeline don't make sense in terms of what I actually wanted but helped me keep up in tech and so indirectly getting the techs I actually needed to build things,

	17-04-2003 07:21									#110
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My second try; maybe I can get either an earlier cultural victory or a spaceship win. Im playing as the Persians, for two reasons.
1. Scientific: a large problem of OCC is dropping behind in science, so maybe I can get some techs sooner for more tech whoring.
2. Sci+Ind: There are many wonders that give these a golden age. Since I don't plan on fighting for a GA, I hope to get one through wonders.

I'm playing on Monarch, one step above my last try and one below my normal difficulty level.

goody hut log:
-Warrior
-Barbs
-Maps
-Gold
-Maps

4000bc: I move settler south. Reasearch beline for literature and then map making. My first worker action is to irrigate the plains.
3550bc: 2 warriors made. I got another warrior from a hut, so I'm starting on the colossus now.
2310bc: Colossus built. Starting prebuild for Great Library.
1675bc: Literature finished. GL in 18 turns.
1550bc: Note - no barbarians as of yet. Maybe the barbarian setting was random?
1450bc: First barbarian spotted.
1350bc: Conscript warrior defeated by barbarian!
1250bc: GLib built; building a spearman and then I'll start on my galley(s). After MM, I'll beline to Republic.
1050bc: 2 galleys done; library then harbour.
975bc: First suidide galley works! I think I'll go buy a lottery ticket today
900bc: Contact with the other continent; even before I contact the Indians and the Koreans! Wheel, Warrior code, Ceremonial Burial, Mysticism, Horseback Riding, and Iron Working from the GL!
825bc: harbour done, starting on Oracle.
800bc: First contact with the Romans; traded their contact to Celts and England.
550bc: Koreans first sighted on my continent.
430bc: Oracle complete, 5 turns until Rep.
230bc: I didn't protect my luxuries enough. Korea is going to put a city on top of the Ivories. I'm going to start a war with my Immortal , and take back the area.
150bc: I destroy the city; golden age!! I just hope that the war with the Koreans doesn't last long...
70bc: Indians demand contact with other continent; I give it to them. All contacts traded.
50bc: War with Koreans over; rest of golden age to be spent building Hanging gardens.
30: The nearest Indian city culture flipped... I just hate to rebuff the rebels
110: Hanging gardens built.
270: Great lighthouse built. This was a just for fun wonder... nothing else to build
290: Middle ages achieved.
450: I'm still the tech leader; starting on education now. 20 turns until Sistine Chapel. Thats it for now.

	17-04-2003 07:46									#111
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1st attempt: Lost the space race...

Part of losing is finding out what went wrong:

I blame my defeat on the Koreans.

What happened is that I really did nothing to prevent one nation from becoming too powerful, Korea dominated the west and Rome conquered the east, yet for some reason Rome stopped researching around the time I got to the space race and Korea hogged the techs. I had not enough money to attempt stealing their techs or sabotaging production so I lost in the end.

Shame because I had played really good medieval and industrial ages, in fact, it was only until the last tech of the industrial age (Flight) that I fell behind, I had been leading or at the least on par with the most advanced civ up to then.

My weak point is diplomacy (contrary to MP skills...). Since I am a warmonger at heart, I usually have little need for stopping a KAI since I am confident that I can beat it in the end. OCC is obviously a very big exeption to this rule. So, I'm going to give it a second try, hopefully for a space race victory but with a cultural victory as a backup. And now I will do all I can to maitain the balance of power. I am a fairly good tech broker so I think I can pull it off with just a little effort.

Anyway, for Dominae for setting this up, it has really been an educational experience.

I'm kinda busy right now so it'll take a while before I finish my 2nd attempt.

	17-04-2003 21:12									#112
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quote: Originally posted by BigDork , just a thought. If I build a settler and then abandon my city and then build a new city on the other continent is that cheating???

Dom...

Is this legal or not? If it is then my conquest will be a heck of a lot easier. I'll just close up shop and move on over to some open land on the other continent and kick some more butt. And technically I still will only have one city. But it's not the same city. Whatcha think?

BigD

	17-04-2003 21:24									#113
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quote: Originally posted by BigDork Is this legal or not? If it is then my conquest will be a heck of a lot easier. I'll just close up shop and move on over to some open land on the other continent and kick some more butt. And technically I still will only have one city. But it's not the same city. Whatcha think?

Sure, why not. I never thought of OCC that way, but that does not mean it's not permissible in this scenario.

Good luck with your warmongering!


Dominae

	18-04-2003 03:11									#114
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quote: Originally posted by BigDork just a thought. If I build a settler and then abandon my city and then build a new city on the other continent is that cheating???

It's a good idea, but I don't think the game will let you abandon your capitol city.

	18-04-2003 04:46									#115
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I played Regent level PtW 1.14. Started by moving the settler to the hill, in order to be by the river and have all city squares on land.

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	18-04-2003 04:48									#116
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I focused on getting temple and library ASAP to prepare for a cultural vic. I built the Great Library but missed Pyramids with only 3 turns.

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	18-04-2003 04:54									#117
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The Sisitine gave me a golden age, which I used to build Tzun Tzu and a university. I was also able to build Copernicus and Smith, but then my luck with the wonders was over. I missed the Suffrage with only one turn and most other with 20 turns or more.

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	18-04-2003 04:58									#118
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With only 100 turns left, my only chance to win is diplomatic. There is not enough time for space or culture. It shouldn't be impossible to win the UN election, as all are polite or graceful towards me but have been in war with each other.

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	18-04-2003 05:08									#119
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They beat me to it. Rome, Korea and England are the only ones left but they are all polite towards me. Now, let's hope for the best...

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	18-04-2003 05:13									#120
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A bribery of 100 gold and a world map to each neigbour is not a bad idea at this stage.

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