05-05-2003 22:50									#211
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Also, AFAIK there's no way to set the city production levels is there? I mean, most cities on the map are building something...

Oh boy - I'd hate to be building a wonder and lose those shields...

	05-05-2003 22:51									#212
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Might be. I'm not sure though. The information is stored somewhere in the save file, so Gramphos has access to it.

Edit: Checked it, and yes, there's a way to set production and shield #.

	05-05-2003 22:54									#213
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Damn, we were 1 shield away from the Manhattan Project... this REALLY sucks!

	05-05-2003 23:00									#214
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I know this probably won't solve anything... but just in the meantime while we wait; What about trying to replay from two turns ago? It wouldn't hurt and it's worth trying.

	05-05-2003 23:02									#215
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I was told that it's possible to export the map from a savegame and into a scenario.

	05-05-2003 23:04									#216
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quote: Originally posted by OliverFA I know this probably won't solve anything... but just in the meantime while we wait; What about trying to replay from two turns ago? It wouldn't hurt and it's worth trying.

I think asleepatthewheel played it from ~10 turns ago and the result was the same.

	05-05-2003 23:07									#217
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quote: Originally posted by Trip I think asleepatthewheel played it from ~10 turns ago and the result was the same.

I played from 710 bc, which was five of six turns ago maybe? Everytime would crash at same point.

	05-05-2003 23:09									#218
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Might be. I'm not sure though. The information is stored somewhere in the save file, so Gramphos has access to it. Edit: Checked it, and yes, there's a way to set production and shield #.

Should each team start preparing a status report for their cities? (WF, Q, # Shields, # Food)

	05-05-2003 23:11									#219
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quote: Originally posted by dejon Should each team start preparing a status report for their cities? (WF, Q, # Shields, # Food)

I can access it from the save.

It would be nice to get the passwords from all the teams though, or especially the admin password from NYE.

	05-05-2003 23:11									#220
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When is the next patch due from Firaxis? Perhaps that will fix this, though that will be a few weeks at least, right?

	05-05-2003 23:11									#221
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel I played from 710 bc, which was five of six turns ago maybe? Everytime would crash at same point.

6 turns, 10 turns, there's not much difference. That says that the problem is in the save file or the game itself.

	05-05-2003 23:12									#222
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel When is the next patch due from Firaxis? Perhaps that will fix this, though that will be a few weeks at least, right?

Right now there's a patch in testing, which would mean that it would be two more patches before this will be fixed, if it's a "game" problem. And that's ignoring the fact that the patch will probably never reach Europe.

	05-05-2003 23:21									#223
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We're going 1.21 now right?

	05-05-2003 23:24									#224
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Right now there's a patch in testing, which would mean that it would be two more patches before this will be fixed, if it's a "game" problem. And that's ignoring the fact that the patch will probably never reach Europe.

Assuming that this isn't one of the things the new patch is fixing?

I've never understood why they can't give Europe the patch at the same time. Cd protection? Whatever, it could get done. Granted, thats an infogrames issue.

	05-05-2003 23:28									#225
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quote: Originally posted by alva We're going 1.21 now right?

The game is 1.14 right now, as many of the players on all teams can't use the American version. Unless the problem was fixed by 1.21 (which it wasn't), then I don't see the game switching over.

	05-05-2003 23:29									#226
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel Assuming that this isn't one of the things the new patch is fixing?

That's possible, but Europe will still be 2 patches away, which basically means well over 4 months.

	05-05-2003 23:58									#227
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This happened to me a while back, I started a modded game and it crashed around 1800. I thought it was due to the mod. I tried re-playing the game from various turns back and it always crashed at exactly the same point.

	06-05-2003 00:05									#228
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Well, as far as I can tell from my programming and debugging experience... which is quite extensive, though... there are two possibilities:

1) the savegame is corrupted
2) the savegame is fine, but the game is unable to handle something stored in it properly

Either way, what we need most is to find out what exactly triggers the crash - once we know that, it will be easy to fix that... through fixing the save - either to some "correct" state (if it is corrupted somehow) or to a state game will be able to handle properly (if it is the game to blame). Either way, we do not need a new patch.

Building a scenario would be too much of a time investment and I would resort to that only in case nye's Firaxis contact says he will not help. It should take someone having the sources and debugger not more than few hours to find out why the game crashes... if it is because of a save, he will then simply fix that part (should be easy), if it is the game, I hope it will be easy to take out that bit of the savegame that is causing the crash (like deleting an "offending" unit or whatever).

If Firaxis really spend their time and look for the bug, they will be able to fix it for us without a new patch, I am quite sure. If not...

I suspect it is an event associated with Lego or barbs - as the game crashes AFTER we hit the End Turn button and BEFORE any barbarians move (I can normally watch them move - and they don't even start moving, despite there being several of them visible).

P.S.: after writing this, I tried some really desperate things... like disbanding our workers, then abandoning all our cities, then getting rid of EVERYTHING (all cities but one and all units...) - the game still crashes...

EDIT: I have just tried to load the save made before hitting the End Turn button (actually letting the extra production load bug to mess with things). Still crashes.

	06-05-2003 00:38									#229
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Well, if all else fails, I live about 10 minutes away from Firaxis' offices, so I can be out there day and night protesting until they fix our game! Anyone else within the greater Hunt Valley area with me!

Last edited by ZargonX on 06-05-2003 at 00:59

	06-05-2003 02:02									#230
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel what about the islands that we haven't discovered, what are you going to do about that? there is a large amount of black space right now...

Gramphos's editor can export the whole map into a scenario. No one would have to create the map, it is already done.

Trip: You could even uncover the 'fog-o-war' by placing "edited in"special units for each civ and have them uncover the map according to the latest intel that each Civ has at the time of the scenario's begining. You would have to create two units for each civ to do this, one land and one sea. Give them 200 movement points each and viola, map is uncovered for that Civ. You would have to play a turn for each each Civ to do this, just moving around the special units only. You'd then save the game and place it back in the editor and take out those 'special units' and then save it as a scenario again. Job finished.

	06-05-2003 02:16									#231
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Wow, Gramphos' tool is starting to sound quite powerful.

If PtW:PBEM is basically flawed though - we could end up having to do this several times. We need a patch that works - worldwide at once, too!

	06-05-2003 02:51									#232
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Gramphos' editor is much more powerful than the Firaxis one.

BF: good idea. I'll just have to make sure the teams aren't able to build more of those guys.

	06-05-2003 05:09									#233
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Gramphos' editor is much more powerful than the Firaxis one. BF: good idea. I'll just have to make sure the teams aren't able to build more of those guys.

hi ,

yes and no , if they would give him all the codes , ...

they really should hire him , ..... here is a guy who could fix both PTW and CIV III , ..... but he has not all what he should have , ......

Soren , Mike , .....

have a nice day

	06-05-2003 06:50									#234
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quote: Either way, what we need most is to find out what exactly triggers the crash - once we know that, it will be easy to fix that... through fixing the save - either to some "correct" state (if it is corrupted somehow) or to a state game will be able to handle properly (if it is the game to blame). Either way, we do not need a new patch. Building a scenario would be too much of a time investment and I would resort to that only in case nye's Firaxis contact says he will not help. It should take someone having the sources and debugger not more than few hours to find out why the game crashes... if it is because of a save, he will then simply fix that part (should be easy), if it is the game, I hope it will be easy to take out that bit of the savegame that is causing the crash (like deleting an "offending" unit or whatever).

I could try my hand at figuring it out. I'd prefer to stay in the game though, so was waiting to hear if Firaxis or Gramphos (Both of whom would be more qualified to do it than I) are going to do it.

I'd agree that there is probably a simpler solution than rebuilding a scenario. There is also the #2 on your list where a scenario might have the same problem anyways.

	06-05-2003 08:01									#235
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Has anyone contacted Gramphos btw?

	06-05-2003 08:17									#236
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I thought he read this thread at least once a day.



You may consider him "contacted" now.

	06-05-2003 08:54									#237
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Received response from Firaxis. They are very busy, but may be able to help. We should not wait up nights though. They are very busy (very) with a major show coming up soon and rumours of a major announcement at that show. I suspect they are already burning midnight oil getting ready.

In the meantime, Trip now has the admin password (I found it after ripping my desk apart) and can poke around quite a bit. Rumours are that some others (Gramphos) might be alerted. Good. If Conqueror is correct then maybe this can be resolved by us relatively quickly.

	06-05-2003 09:28									#238
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I need a new save file.

I have one from 570 BC I've been testing, but when I play the GOW turn Vox declares war on me then crashes.

	06-05-2003 09:45									#239
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590 Lego to GS on the way...

	06-05-2003 09:54									#240
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quote: Originally posted by Trip I need a new save file. I have one from 570 BC I've been testing, but when I play the GOW turn Vox declares war on me then crashes.

See, I think the main problem is with Vox. If we reset the game back a few turns and allow GS to take their cities, I think the problem would be gone. They are a menace, this is proof

Seriously, I hope this time it works...