13-04-2003 20:57									#1
	What makes a unit "a horse"? Remove this text

right...
what makes a unit "a horse"?

I bet you all now about the special attribute:
2x defence versus horse (pikemen)
and that there are only 7 units that can be defined as "horses"...
those are: Horsemen, Chariots, Elephants, Crusaders, Knights, Dragoons and Cavalry...

So how the heck do you make other units "horse"?

You might wonder why Im asking you this...
Well I came up with a nice idea:
Since everybody likes WWII-scenarios then this "horsing" would be very nice for anti-tanks...
BUT <--- (notice but)
But if you, for example, put 7 tanks into these horse-squares and realize that this is not that many tanks that you would like to have... How would you then, make other horse-squares?

thanks in advance

/Spader

	13-04-2003 22:16									#2
	Put an end to popups!

Horse units = 2 movement points, and without alpine flag.

	13-04-2003 22:30									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Is there no way going around that?
Is it impossible to make a movement6-unit a horse?

/Spader

	13-04-2003 23:41									#4
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quote: Since everybody likes WWII-scenarios

Ahem
I hope that my interpretation, that this is sarcasm, is correct

And no, there is no way around it. There are ways to trick this, by using multiple rules-files, or other neat tricks I might come up with when asked, but this fact is, if I'm not mistaken, hard-coded, and you can't change it.

	14-04-2003 00:27									#5
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Actually horse units are defined as followed:

movement = 2
firepower = 1
hit points = 1

Any other combination will deny the defender bonus of your anti-tanks guns..

	14-04-2003 00:50									#6
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I am almost positive that it's just movement == 2 and domain == land. That's the assumption my unit design is based on.

	14-04-2003 04:43									#7
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Does anybody actually know?

	14-04-2003 08:03									#8
	Put an end to popups!

If the obsessive dissecting wizards of the Strategy Forum are correct, then Dr. Kellogg is almost right on the money. See Apolyton Great Library: Combat. Having lost a number of arguments against Slowthinker, I wouldn't bet against them.

However, I'm pretty sure that someone (Sodaq, Slowthinker?) learned (in 2002?) that the fp=1 requirement is not true. The mf=2, hp=1 still holds.

The only real way to test is to try 100 trials and compare the results to a calculated probability.

Edit: I asked this question on the Strategy Forum. See http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=83455

Last edited by Boco on 14-04-2003 at 08:15

	14-04-2003 09:52									#9
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Hmmm ....
I'm sure I remember Henrik (?) stating that FP>1 annuls the 'x2 vs horse' flag.
If HP>1 works the same way then it wouldn't work against std cav/dragoons either.

Lastly, I guess, does the popup "always" appear when conditions trigger the effect?

	14-04-2003 15:07									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Has anybody tested this for ships yet? If it also applies for ships, what if their movement rate is increased by NP or the concerning Wow's?
What about a 2-movement ship with one HP and one FP attacking a Pikeman?

	14-04-2003 18:54									#11
	Remove this text

What about unit role? I thought it had to be an "attacker" [0] as well.

	16-04-2003 08:08									#12
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quote: Originally posted by spader Is there no way going around that? Is it impossible to make a movement6-unit a horse? /Spader

I've used it in reverse as well like in BFC. i.e. make the pikemen flag = armour by giving infantry a move of two and giving the pikeman flag to all tanks.

That way infantry can be less wimpy. They have higher attack values for killing other stuff, can defend against tank attacks but cannot attack tanks directly.

	16-04-2003 10:41									#13
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This can't be true... can it?

	16-04-2003 14:31									#14
	Remove this text

So it is not slot specific?

I had pondered on this a while ago.
All civ2 expanation texts say that a movement of 2 is required to qualify for a "horse".

Nothing about hitpoints or firepower. Dragoons have two HPs anyway.

But what if a unit in the "horse" slots does not fill in the mov2 requirment?

	16-04-2003 14:45									#15
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I don't think there is a "horse slot", it's very likely to be independent from that.

	16-04-2003 16:33									#16
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quote: This can't be true... can it?

Using the standard Rules.txt, it's easy enough to test. Entrench a phalanx on one mountain. Entrench a piker on another. Attack each with a Dragoons. Without a pike bonus, the Dragoons should win ~46% of the time. If the pike bonus works, the rate should drop to ~33%. You do need to test it at least 50 times, though. Don't have time to test it myself right now, but maybe later.

	16-04-2003 17:48									#17
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all this "horsing" is giving me a headache... ;(

	16-04-2003 19:37									#18
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quote: Originally posted by DarthVeda This can't be true... can it?

were you refering to tagging tanks as pikemen? There's no reason why it doesn't work.